Moving up from a Lubitel 166B TLR?

[brainmonster]

I recently acquired a Lubitel 166B but I haven't finished a roll yet. I'm wondering, what is out there to "move up" from this camera in MF these days? I've heard that this camera is inferior to Yashica, Mamiya, etc. models. due to Russian construction and poor optics.

But for the price, I think it's pretty good and I wanted it to get me started in medium format.

However, if it ever were to break, I'd like to replace it with a better model. I'm thinking about a Kiev 6C (Pentacon 6 copy), how is this camera? Or a Kiev 88, but it looks like it's difficult to find one in good condition. A Kiev 6C can be found for maybe $100 without a lens, is this a decent deal? Or maybe an old Soviet Iskra camera, but it seems like it might be risky because of the bellows being fragile.

I'm looking to spend maybe $150 max (for now) on a medium format camera. Is this realistic? Or is the Lubitel a decent enough MF camera that I can stick with it over the more expensive models.

Also, do I need to worry about thoriated eyepieces or lenses with these old soviet cameras? I've heard the soviets did not have the technology to use thorium, so it's nothing to worry about (plus they used outdated designs).

Not worried about the lenses so much as the eyepieces, which I've heard can actually be a little bit harmful and there's regulations against.

 

[Ariston]

You can probably find a Minolta Autocord at that price if you look hard enough. I have one and have never felt the need to “move up” from it.

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

I was studying in Poland in 1989. It was a year of political transformation, shortages, and economic change. There were long lines when some rare commodity that we take for granted—like towels or 35mm film or dictionaries—suddenly became available in the shops at an affordable price. Toilet paper was a black market item—you could get it if you had western currency and could find someone selling it. At this time, all you could find in the camera shops were stacks of Lubitels going unsold.

 

[brainmonster]

I was studying in Poland in 1989. It was a year of political transformation, shortages, and economic change. There were long lines when some rare commodity that we take for granted—like towels or 35mm film or dictionaries—suddenly became available in the shops at an affordable price. Toilet paper was a black market item—you could get it if you had western currency and could find someone selling it. At this time, all you could find in the camera shops were stacks of Lubitels going unsold.

So are you saying it's a super crap camera? I've just searched online and it seems to have a negative reputation, LOL. Like the focusing ring gear coming misaligned.

Is it really that bad? I haven't developed the photos yet.

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

Well, in a world where it was in competition with other Soviet and East German cameras, and a Kiev 88 was considered pretty good, the Lubitel wasn’t regarded favorably. I had a Pentacon 6 while I was there at that time, because my Canon New F-1 was too exotic and foreign. The Pentacon let me blend in like any local student. The Zeiss Jena lenses for the Pentacon were great, but they usually developed film transport problems.

 

[AgX]

The Pentacon 6 was used by professionals and even in space. But it was known for problems. A well known GDR photo reporter got himself a Hasselblad for his several Pentacon 6 as soon as he could afford one, due to the problems they developed. But most guys here are no professionals...

 

[Huss]

So are you saying it's a super crap camera? I've just searched online and it seems to have a negative reputation, LOL. Like the focusing ring gear coming misaligned.

Is it really that bad? I haven't developed the photos yet.

I had a new old stock Lubitel Moscow Olympics edition. Focus was really hard to do as even with the magnifier, it was really hard to tell what was what.
First roll - got some really decent pics and the lens was great.
2nd roll - only got about 8 pics on the roll. Massive blank spaces between the unevenly spaced frames.
3rd roll - broken.

So, yeah, at least mine was total crap. If yours stays together then cool. And seeing you already have it, use it until you too find it crap.
Yashica has some really nice TLRs under $200 like the Yashicamat D and 124. I briefly had a 124g (had to return it as it's advance mechanism was defective, but its focusing screen was super bright and easy to use (easier than any of my Rolleiflexes apart from my 2.8GX), and the lens was really excellent. Seemed to match my Rolleiflexes.

 

[k.hendrik]

My second camera was a Lubitel 2 bought it in 1967 and still working like a charm.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/77846450@N00/30117488170/in/dateposted-public/

 

[brainmonster]

My second camera was a Lubitel 2 bought it in 1967 and still working like a charm.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/77846450@N00/30117488170/in/dateposted-public/

Did you ever put flocking material in it? I don't even know where to put the material, but I’ve heard people recommend it.

 

[John51]

Hold judgement on the Lubitel until you've seen the results from a few rolls. Compared to 35mm, it can be impressive. Not everyone takes to using a wlf and it can take a few rolls to find that out. Best to know that before spending on another tlr. If a wlf is for you, then great, you'll be spoilt for choice.

 

[k.hendrik]

Light seals you mean ? Yes, bottom and back of the camera not on the door.

 

[Dali]

Maybe I am lucky but I never faced the usual complains about the Lubitel: Bad optical quality, shutter unreliability or light leak. I use mine (166U) quite often without any issue. OK, focusing can be challenging and winding the film is a pain in low light.

A step above could be a simple TLR like a Super Ricohflex: Slightly heavier but focusing is way easier.

For a little more money, you enter the Ikoflex / Yashica-mat / Rolleicord kingdom. Cameras a definitively easier to use (full speeds range, good to very good screens, better lens coating, etc…) but they are more complex and the challenge is to get a CLAed one for $150 (or to include the price of a CLA in your budget).

Then, you have the Rolleiflex but it is another story (and another budget).

I would stay away from Kiev 88 / Pentacon 6 and al. Look for a Mamiya C220/C330 instead: Very good camera but on the heavy side for TLRs…

 

[Ko.Fe.]

I’m not sure why Lubitel has to brake. It is primitive build camera.
The rest Iskra, Kievs will brake.
Moskva 4 with 6x6 is good alternative if you want to stay cheap.
But honestly FSU MF is not worth it.
Check local classifieds and wait for serviced Rolleicord. You’ll pay little more but it is best MF camera for its price. Better than any Yashica and else.

 

[AgX]

I would stay away from Kiev 88 / Pentacon 6 and al. Look for a Mamiya C220/C330 instead: Very good camera but on the heavy side for TLRs…

One should not overlook the different design concepts just in this sentence:

Pentacon 6 is a classic SLR

Mamiya C220/C330 is a TLR

Kiev 88 is a Hasselblad-style SLR

All three handle very different. As John51 in his great post above already hinted at: respective design considerations are crucial.

 

[guangong]

Rather than limiting myself to $150 for a camera, I would save up in a piggy bank until I had acquired enough to buy a nice camera of choice. In the meantime, use the Lubital until it craps out.
I was gifted a Pentagon 6 at the factory. It developed problems shortly thereafter. Buying for a super bargain is never wise.

 

[BrianShaw]

I'm looking to spend maybe $150 max (for now) on a medium format camera. Is this realistic?

Probably not, unless you are extremely patient, shop carefully, and get very lucky.

As others have said... might be better for you to explore those capabilities while saving money. The last thing you need is to buy another camera only to find out you don’t have money for a proper overhaul to bring it into reliable working order.

 

[wjlapier]

For $150 yes you can find another camera that MIGHT be nicer--I have no experience with Lubitals. I see Yashicas go for around $150 often. I picked up my Rolleicord III here for around $100--slow speeds were off but the speeds I used were fine. Mark Hansen speaks highly of the III. Dan Daniels occasionally has some nice CLA's TLRs for sale. Be patient and you'll find one.

 

[Paul Howell]

Yashica 124s can go from $100 to 300, the earlier Yashicamats are more the $150 range. Other Yashica option is the Yashica D, the model with the 4 element taking lens and 2.8 viewing lens. The Ds use a knob for winding rather than a crank, not self cocking, which has it downsides but allows for double exposure. Kiev's that have been rebuilt are going for more than $150, while the from the factory bodies, if you good with tools and find the Y tube videos you can attempt to rebuild. Once broght up standards it's a good camera.

If you can stretch your budget, then maybe a Mamiya 220, the budget version of the 330.

 

[brainmonster]

Guys I'm talking about buying a Kiev 6C (OR Kiev 60), NOT a Pentacon 6! They are different cameras! And I cannot afford a Pentacon 6. Well, I could, but I'm not willing to spend $300 (current listings) on a used vintage camera that might have problems. I'd rather buy a cheaper on with a CLA or CLA it myself somewhere if I can find a good place. But in Hawaii, I doubt someone will be able to CLA it.

Also, I'm not willing to spend $300 or so on a Mamiya C220, etc., even though it looks nice...I'd rather buy a Russian camera for now until I get a hold on how these guys hold up, how they work, and not waste $300 on a camera that could be a paperweight.

 

[AgX]

Be fair...

I'm thinking about a Kiev 6C (Pentacon 6 copy), how is this camera?

Guys I'm talking about buying a Kiev 6C (OR Kiev 60), NOT a Pentacon 6! They are different cameras!

 

[cramej]

Guys I'm talking about buying a Kiev 6C (OR Kiev 60), NOT a Pentacon 6! They are different cameras! And I cannot afford a Pentacon 6. Well, I could, but I'm not willing to spend $300 (current listings) on a used vintage camera that might have problems. I'd rather buy a cheaper on with a CLA or CLA it myself somewhere if I can find a good place. But in Hawaii, I doubt someone will be able to CLA it.

Also, I'm not willing to spend $300 or so on a Mamiya C220, etc., even though it looks nice...I'd rather buy a Russian camera for now until I get a hold on how these guys hold up, how they work, and not waste $300 on a camera that could be a paperweight.

A C2/C22/C220 only has 2 moving parts (ok 3 if you count the lock/unlock knob) - it should never be a paperweight unless the body is tweaked.

Really, most decent folders that you can find for under $100 would have a better lens than the Lubitel if you're ok with zone focusing. Any of the Yashica's with a Yashinon lens will be orders of magnitude better than a Lubitel and can easily be found for $150 in good working condition except the 124-g. It's seems to have a hipster/college student cult following and is usually overpriced.

 

[brainmonster]

Be fair...

Perhaps people don't know this camera. Actually It's not really a copy, but a completely different camera. It's a Russian monstrosity - weighing a mighty 5 pounds with a lens attached. I'm sure you'd break the ground before you broke the camera if you dropped it.
Anyways, some people say that The Russian engineering on these cameras is far inferior to East German Engineering, but if it works, I don't care. But I'm not sure if it has the same film transport problems as the Pentacon 6 (being a different camera).

Anyway, I suppose I should wait for my Lubitel to break before I buy a new camera, but it'd be nice to have choices for MF and split up the usage to have a "backup" in case one of my rickety Russian cameras should break

 

[brainmonster]

Anyway, the one I'm looking at looks clean but there's a little crease in the shutter. What is this? Should I avoid buying this copy?

 

[Ces1um]

So are you saying it's a super crap camera? I've just searched online and it seems to have a negative reputation, LOL. Like the focusing ring gear coming misaligned.

Is it really that bad? I haven't developed the photos yet.

I've gotten some great photos out of my old 166B. I did "step up" to lomography's 166+ though. It has a split prism for focusing. I didn't have any issue with the focusing ring becoming misaligned. I did find that in the very cold the lubrication on the shutter would thicken and become sluggish.

 

[AgX]

[Kiev 66 is] a Russian monstrosity - weighing a mighty 5 pounds with a lens attached. I'm sure you'd break the ground before you broke the camera if you dropped it.
Anyways, some people say that The Russian engineering on these cameras is far inferior to East German Engineering, but if it works, I don't care. But I'm not sure if it has the same film transport problems as the Pentacon 6 (being a different camera).

The Kiev 60 has no transport problem and is in many/most features better than Pentacon Six. And it is less than 10% heavier than the Pentacon.
And as its name already indicates, it is not even a russian camera...