Moving seemlessly over to Ilfotec HC from HC-110

John Bragg · Mar 8, 2021

Today is the day that I have finally moved over to Ilfotec HC from my usual brew of choice, Kodak HC-110. My first film hanging up to dry and process time temperature and method the same, barring any nescessary tweeks. To my seasoned old eyes, the negatives look the same. Ilfotec HC is after all to HC-110 what ID-11 is to D76,(Functionally identical). Reasons for the switch, my gut feeling is that Kodak have cheaped out with their new formulation. I cant believe in it any more, until anecdotal evidence says otherwise. Also their prices have become (for me at least) untenable. I feel good that I am now doing more to support a National Institution like Ilford, as they 100% support photographers. I moved to HP5+ ages ago from Tri-X, also on cost terms, but the way I use it, I like it just as much, if not better.

ChristopherCoy · Mar 8, 2021

I wish I had your strength. I’ve wanted to do the exact same for a few months now. I just haven’t been able to bring myself to jump yet.

Nitroplait · Mar 8, 2021

Glad to know. I notice the current price where I live is about the same pr. liter concentrate.
Do they have the same potency? If so I'd be happier supporting Ilford in the future - Kodak has let me down a couple of times during the past 10 years so I have gradually switched to Ilford when they offered something as good or better.

John Bragg · Mar 8, 2021

ChristopherCoy said:
I wish I had your strength. I’ve wanted to do the exact same for a few months now. I just haven’t been able to bring myself to jump yet.

More bloody mindedness than strength. I still have a bit of HC-110 left, but I wanted to change anyhow...

John Bragg · Mar 8, 2021

Nitroplait said:
Glad to know. I notice the current price where I live is about the same pr. liter concentrate.
Do they have the same potency? If so I'd be happier supporting Ilford in the future - Kodak has let me down a couple of times during the past 10 years so I have gradually switched to Ilford when they offered something as good or better.

Same potency and same dilution ratios. Ilford is thinner but still a water free formula. In the UK, Wex have Ilfotec HC for £24.99. HC-110 is more like £36 in most places.
At 8ml per tank of dilution H, 20p per film. Astounding value.

pentaxuser · Mar 8, 2021

John Bragg said:
Same potency and same dilution ratios. Ilford is thinner but still a water free formula.

If it is water free then is there any reason to believe that it will not have the same longevity as the former HC110 and secondly at least the same longevity as the new HC110? It was relistan, I believe, who put forward his belief based on his research that while new HC110 is thinner than it was, it too is water free so it may be the while it has lost its syrupy quality this may not have any effect on its renowned longevity and by the same token Ilford HC should have at least the same longevity as new HC110.

So for price reasons, at least in the U.K., there is nothing to lose by switching from HC110 to Ilford HC. At least that's what my logic tells me

pentaxuser

mrosenlof · Mar 8, 2021

at B&H in the US, Ilfotec HC: $72.05 for one liter (will ship) HC-110: $34.99 per liter in store pickup only.
Freestyle has Ilfotec HC for $64.99, HC-110 at the same price as B&H

at 9ml per roll of film, it's not that expensive, either way, but harder to justify Ilford if the performance is the same. At the rate I'm using HC-110 I'll know how well a 3 year opened bottle of concentrate works in a two more years.

John Bragg · Mar 8, 2021

pentaxuser said:
If it is water free then is there any reason to believe that it will not have the same longevity as the former HC110 and secondly at least the same longevity as the new HC110? It was relistan, I believe, who put forward his belief based on his research that while new HC110 is thinner than it was, it too is water free so it may be the while it has lost its syrupy quality this may not have any effect on its renowned longevity and by the same token Ilford HC should have at least the same longevity as new HC110.

So for price reasons, at least in the U.K., there is nothing to lose by switching from HC110 to Ilford HC. At least that's what my logic tells me

pentaxuser

My thoughts entirely. I am using Calpol bottles (brown glass) and oral medicine syringes to store and dispense the Ilfotec HC, so oxidation should be minimised.

pentaxuser · Mar 8, 2021

mrosenlof said:
at B&H in the US, Ilfotec HC: $72.05 for one liter (will ship) HC-110: $34.99 per liter in store pickup only.
.

Thanks. Yes this seems to be the way for most Kodak v Ilford prices in the U.S. and its the opposite for the U.K.

So along as this continues to be the case then Kodak(SinoPromise that is ) may have little to worry about as the U.K. and European markets for Kodak may be minor. However a bit more worrying I would have thought is if and when some longstanding Kodakers express concerns about KA/SP problems with chemicals

I keep on referring to Kodak in matters chemical when it is not. Maybe it's time I changed to SP/KA as well all should or at least to whatever is the generally acceptable notation to cover the chemical side of what is no longer Kodak's business?

pentaxuser

MattKing · Mar 8, 2021

pentaxuser said:
I keep on referring to Kodak in matters chemical when it is not. Maybe it's time I changed to SP/KA as well all should or at least to whatever is the generally acceptable notation to cover the chemical side of what is no longer Kodak's business?

It is still going to be branded Kodak.
Just as the Tetenal produced chemicals will be branded by Harman Technology as Ilford.

pentaxuser · Mar 8, 2021

Yes, Matt, just seeking a more appropriate terminology that differentiates Kodak the film maker from Kodak the "chemic" but maybe this is not required. It certainly makes things easier if we can continue to call everything Kodak

pentaxuser

MattKing · Mar 8, 2021

If you buy an iPhone 12, do you worry about referring to it as something that is originally manufactured in India and then assembled in Taiwan by Foxconn?

37th Exposure · Mar 8, 2021

MattKing said:
It is still going to be branded Kodak.
Just as the Tetenal produced chemicals will be branded by Harman Technology as Ilford.

For over a century, you could trust the Kodak name implicitly. Today it means nothing. Like a new Rolls Royce model that comes with a used Yugo engine under the hood. At least Ilford still means Ilford no matter what’s really in the package.

halfaman · Mar 8, 2021

37th Exposure said:
Ilford still means Ilford no matter what’s really in the package.

Besides the mottling issue in 120 roll film that last two years with no explanation from Ilford why it happens and what they are going to do to solve it, only replacing the affected film with new rolls that sometimes have the same issue again. Several photographers I know are moving out from Ilford because of this, .

Tom Kershaw · Mar 8, 2021

halfaman said:
Several photographers I know are moving out from Ilford because of this, .

To Kodak for black & white?

Adrian Bacon · Mar 8, 2021

ChristopherCoy said:
I wish I had your strength. I’ve wanted to do the exact same for a few months now. I just haven’t been able to bring myself to jump yet.

Ilford's chemistry is pretty good. If you're shooting Ilford films, there's no reason not to use their chemistry. I grew up on Kodak stuff, but have been very happy using Ilford. The way I see it, they're more dedicated (at least to black and white) than Kodak is, so, all the more reason to support them.

halfaman · Mar 9, 2021

Tom Kershaw said:
To Kodak for black & white?

Some move to Kodak, but for others Tri-X or TMax 400 are too expensive right now and need to look further options,

Old Gregg said:
I think it's highly unlikely that your friends got unlucky. This has to be some kind of not-quite edge case scenario. Perhaps increased sensitivity to ambient humidity?

It happened also to me with a couple of HP5 rolls, nothing special in them but they went directly to the trash can. Impossible to save anything. Whatever is happening, it is Ilford specific. I don't know of any other manufacturer with this problem.

The Ilford statement acknowledged the issue but identify no root cause or scope of the problem (lots affected). I hope they finally get to it... We need Ilford as we need Kodak.

Tom Kershaw · Mar 9, 2021

halfaman said:
The Ilford statement acknowledged the issue but identify no root cause or scope of the problem (lots affected). I hope they finally get to it... We need Ilford as we need Kodak.

Do you know whether the mottling problem has been observed with 120 Fomapan?

halfaman · Mar 9, 2021

Tom Kershaw said:
Do you know whether the mottling problem has been observed with 120 Fomapan?

Not that I am aware of but I don't know many people using Foma in 120 on a regular basis, mostly use Foma in sheets.

I saw here recently a Fomapan 200 problem but they were scratches, nothing to do with Ilford issue.

Fomapan Creative 200 120 Black dots and...streaks | Photrio.com Photography Forums

Adrian Bacon · Mar 9, 2021

Tom Kershaw said:
Do you know whether the mottling problem has been observed with 120 Fomapan?

i have a fair amount of fomapan come through my lab. I haven’t seen anything that I’d consider a problem on new film. Old stuff, sure, depending on how it was kept. I recently had a pile of rolls come through that smelled like an old attic, and sure enough, the images were pretty much much crap.

John Bragg · Mar 9, 2021

So....... has anyone else moved over recently to Ilfotec HC and what is your take on it ? I had a real good look today and compared a range of HC-110 developed negs to my latest HC ones and they really do look identical. Time to stock up.

Wayne · Mar 9, 2021

John Bragg said:
So....... has anyone else moved over recently to Ilfotec HC and what is your take on it ? I had a real good look today and compared a range of HC-110 developed negs to my latest HC ones and they really do look identical. Time to stock up.

I see what you did there... I'm interested to know too, because my last bottle of old HC-110 is getting toward the low end.

John Bragg · Mar 9, 2021

Wayne said:
I see what you did there... I'm interested to know too, because my last bottle of old HC-110 is getting toward the low end.

Hi Wayne, It seems absurd that Kodak Alaris appear to have fixed the price of their products at an all time high in the UK. I have learned to shop around for Ilford stuff too and get the best price, as some vendors discount to a greater extent. Ilford also deal direct, and depending on seasonal deals and promos, that is often the best way to go.

pentaxuser · Mar 10, 2021

John Bragg said:
Hi Wayne, It seems absurd that Kodak Alaris appear to have fixed the price of their products at an all time high in the UK. I have learned to shop around for Ilford stuff too and get the best price,.

It might be because that is what KA has decided the market will bear and until a lot of customers do the "shop around" it will continue this way
Capitalism tends to be "red in tooth and claw" in this way and in the words of the group "10cc" in the "Wall Street Shuffle" "Dow Jones ain't got time for the bums"

pentaxuser

Tom Kershaw · Mar 10, 2021

John Bragg said:
It seems absurd that Kodak Alaris appear to have fixed the price of their products at an all time high in the UK.

Kodak pricing for film in the UK is very strange, they used to be competitive with ILFORD but the 'Kodak premium' has risen ever further, more than can be explained by currency fluctuations or sales tax / VAT differences. I suspect one reason is the convoluted distribution of Kodak products and too many intermediaries adding costs.

One can still observe significant pricing variation for the T-Max films for example, within the UK market. If I were ever to run a photographic materials supplier one of my first actions would be to try and establish consistent pricing.

Moving seemlessly over to Ilfotec HC from HC-110

John Bragg

ChristopherCoy

Nitroplait

John Bragg

John Bragg

pentaxuser

mrosenlof

John Bragg

pentaxuser

MattKing

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37th Exposure

halfaman

Tom Kershaw

Adrian Bacon

halfaman

Tom Kershaw

halfaman

Adrian Bacon

John Bragg

Wayne

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Tom Kershaw

Moving seemlessly over to Ilfotec HC from HC-110

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