Most environmentally-friendly best developer, fixer combination for BW these days and why

[sperera]

Hi all...what's the most environmentally-friendly best developer, fixer combination for BW these days and why....thats not Caffenol.....??? looking for biodegradable and things like that

 

[Stanislav Boščík]

Developers are mostly environmentally friendly and can be disposed to sewage in most areas. Ascorbic acid based developers with a very small amount of phenidone/dimezone are probably the less harmful. So I would recommend PC-TEA, Mytol...

Fixers needs to be recycled as silver compounds are not biodegradable. Those should never be poured to to sewage.

 

[sperera]

my preferred is Kodak Xtol how does that do??????? also just purchased some D-76....how does one recycle FIX though?

 

[darkosaric]

Eco film developer:
https://www.moersch-photochemie.de/content/shop/negativ/128/eco_film_developer

 

[138S]

Hi all...what's the most environmentally-friendly best developer, fixer combination for BW these days and why....thats not Caffenol.....??? looking for biodegradable and things like that

One of the best commercial choices is Xtol, it is a "high performance" developer designed to also be highly eco friendly.

You have to mix 5L... for long term storage of the stock dilution it is adviced to use distilled or deionized water specially if your tap water has significative iron content, as it may damage the ascorbic (Vitamin C) ingredient, IIRC. The other developing agent is Phenidone which is low toxic and persent in very low amounts, two developing agents are required for the superadditivity effect, so that combination is sound: a Vit C edible agent plus another powerful one that is relatively low toxic and in very small amounts.

One may desire other features in a developer, but Xtol is eco-technically sound.

my preferred is Kodak Xtol how does that do??????? also just purchased some D-76....how does one recycle FIX though?

Fixer may be left dry outdoors in a "protected" place and later colecting powder with care (avoid breathing it), so it's easier to storage and transport, making less trips to a disposal facility.

Silver from fixer can be mostly removed/recovered with easy DIY procedures.

Search at youtube : fixer silver recovery

also many explanations in the www and in this forum

At one time (peak Ag price) it was quite profitable, commercial labs had extra cash income from silver recovery.

 

[Anon Ymous]

Use Xtol and remove silver from used fixer. The main ingredient of rapid fixer, ammonium thiosulfate, is used as a fertiliser, the rest of the ingredients are fairly benign and/or in low concentration.

 

[Stanislav Boščík]

my preferred is Kodak Xtol how does that do??????? also just purchased some D-76....how does one recycle FIX though?

Xtol is isoascorbic acid (or the isoascorbate) based so it should be quite safe as its alternatives mentioned above.

D-76 is metol/hydroquinone based and more problematic. Metol can cause dermatitis. Hydroquinone is less harmful - it is used for skin whitening. It is still OK to put this developer down the drain in most areas as those organic compounds are biodegradable in waste water treatment plants (when diluted of course, so normal amount of photo amateur should be OK).

 

[sperera]

....and what about C-41....what would you recommend there......
also...how does one remove silver from used fixer

 

[bernard_L]

Yet another thread on the environmental impact of photo chemicals. Use caffenol and go to sleep with a good conscience.
I'd be curious to know the compared impact of my used photo chemicals versus the pesticides used in growing the wheat for my bread, the soybean used in producing the meat I consume, the miles I drive or fly, etc... Do note that I am not using the argument that photographers are a small percentage of the general population, because it would be improper.
I do not have the answers; but al least did you ask yourself these questions?

 

[guangong]

For the home developer of a few rolls or sheets of film every week or so, developers, fixers, etc should have no adverse effects on environment or water supply. I have been developing still and movie film for about 40 yrs with no problems with septic tank. More troublesome for environment are many laundry detergents. Enjoy your film and stop worrying.

 

[sperera]

I'm going to offer hand-printing in a darkroom service so I want to have the information to hit back at anyone who wants to put it all down......I should now create a PART B to this thread being.....what do i tell anyone who says film photography and darkrooms are toxic...and no i don't want to use Caffenol hahaha

 

[138S]

also...how does one remove silver from used fixer

For BW (I don't know color): "Before you discard your used fixer, toss in some aluminum foil.
In a few moments the aluminum will begin to trade places with the silver ions in the fixer.
The silver will precipitate out as a black sludge of pure silver (mixed with a few bits of leftover aluminum).
The used fixer can now be discarded without concern about silver in the environment.
Silver test papers have verified the absence of silver in the solution."

http://www.film-and-darkroom-user.org.uk/forum/archive/index.php/t-9318.html



https://www.kodakalaris.com/getmedia/043c81e7-c177-465c-9f46-61c2df939cb8/RecoveringSilver.pdf.aspx
https://www.kodak.com/uploadedfiles...t_en_motion_support_processing_h245_h2405.pdf

https://www.nanianphoto.com/blog/silver-magnets-and-trickle-tanks/

https://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=3558

(gasses can be emited, ventilation...) A simple carbon plate from a large dry battery for an anode, a stainless steel sheet for cathode, and a voltage of 2 to 5 volts depending on electrode distance. You'll get pure c. 98% pure silver on the cathode, some 100mg/liter will stay in the fixer with this method.

 

[Kino]

I'm going to offer hand-printing in a darkroom service so I want to have the information to hit back at anyone who wants to put it all down......I should now create a PART B to this thread being.....what do i tell anyone who says film photography and darkrooms are toxic...and no i don't want to use Caffenol hahaha

Just point at their smart phone and ask them how they justify the E-waste...

#10. It takes 539 lbs. of fossil fuel, 48 lbs. of chemicals, and 1.5 tons of water to manufacture one computer and monitor.

https://turtlewings.com/blog/11_facts_about_e-waste

 

[sperera]

For BW (I don't know color): "Before you discard your used fixer, toss in some aluminum foil.
In a few moments the aluminum will begin to trade places with the silver ions in the fixer.
The silver will precipitate out as a black sludge of pure silver (mixed with a few bits of leftover aluminum).
The used fixer can now be discarded without concern about silver in the environment.
Silver test papers have verified the absence of silver in the solution."

http://www.film-and-darkroom-user.org.uk/forum/archive/index.php/t-9318.html



https://www.kodakalaris.com/getmedia/043c81e7-c177-465c-9f46-61c2df939cb8/RecoveringSilver.pdf.aspx
https://www.kodak.com/uploadedfiles...t_en_motion_support_processing_h245_h2405.pdf

https://www.nanianphoto.com/blog/silver-magnets-and-trickle-tanks/

https://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=3558

(gasses can be emited, ventilation...) A simple carbon plate from a large dry battery for an anode, a stainless steel sheet for cathode, and a voltage of 2 to 5 volts depending on electrode distance. You'll get pure c. 98% pure silver on the cathode, some 100mg/liter will stay in the fixer with this method.

most helpful thanks for posting appreciate it

 

[pthornto]

As others have said, XTOL is a great choice for a developer that works well with many films and is low in toxicity. It is even better when used in replenished form and you end up discarding only about ~70-80 mL per roll of film (since a pack of XTOL is about a pound of chemical in 5L, this is about 100g/L so you are disposing of less than a gram of solid per roll of film). So this is great for minimizing waste and is cheap. This was the preferred route for commercial labs using XTOL and was what was done at NSCAD when I learned B/W photography.

I reuse fix and then dispose of in municipal haz waste, but 2 L of rapid fix lasts a long time at the rate I use it. It is a good idea to crash out the silver with foil or steel wool but I never do that.

 

[sperera]

.....how does RODINAL look on the toxicity chart!?

 

[Kino]

There are many threads here on the subject of Photo Chemistry Safety/Toxicity. A search would be in order, but here's one to start you; https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/photographic-chemicals-and-health-risks.31179/

 

[Stanislav Boščík]

....and what about C-41....what would you recommend there......
also...how does one remove silver from used fixer

I am quite sure you will not find eco friendly C-41 formula. C-41 uses CD-4 as developing agent (ECN-2 and RA-4 are CD-3 based). Those are not as harmful compounds as CD-2/CD-1 or T32/TSS used in the past but they are still very dangerous.
Bleach is usually potassium ferricyanide solution. Also a poison; should be kept away of acids as it produces very poisonous hydrogen cyanide gas then!

CD-4 risk and safety statements

R25:Toxic if swallowed.
R43:May cause sensitization by skin contact.
R48/22:Harmful: danger of serious damage to health by prolonged exposure if swallowed .
R50/53:Very Toxic to aquatic organisms, may cause long-term adverse effects in the aquatic environment .
R36/37/38:Irritating to eyes, respiratory system and skin .

S24:Avoid contact with skin .
S37:Wear suitable gloves .
S45:In case of accident or if you feel unwell, seek medical advice immediately (show label where possible) .
S60:This material and/or its container must be disposed of as hazardous waste .
S61:Avoid release to the environment. Refer to special instructions safety data sheet .
S36:Wear suitable protective clothing .
S26:In case of contact with eyes, rinse immediately with plenty of water and seek medical advice .

 

[grainyvision]

If you want eco friendly for print developers, avoid hydroquinone. Hydroquinone is used in some skin whitening creams, but many countries have banned this use due to health concerns. Also hydroquinone has a tendency to decay to the much more dangerous chemical benzoquinone. Benzoquinone eventually decays irreversibly into a huge number of polymers and other unidentified components that aren't really active or dangerous, but benzoquinone is quite stable at neutral and acidic pH.

Even lesser hazards like sulfite can be problematic in water treatments. Sulfite specifically induces a high oxygen load. A very good and fast print developer can be produced by using ascorbic acid, phenidone, and carbonate. The phenidone is used in such small amounts that it is mostly negligible. The ascorbic acid will decay into DHAA (a somewhat stable radical) and eventually oxalic acid and oxalate if neutralized. In addition, oxalate can be used to preserve ascorbic acid as well as function as an ideal chelating agent. In some simple tray tests I was able to make 1g of ascorbic acid and 0.05g of phenidone (per liter) work as a fast neutral tone print developer that remained at about the same activity level after 3 days in an open tray by using oxalate, though the color of the solution did change significantly. Oxalate itself is produced by tons of life and though toxic to humans (causes kidney stones by becoming insoluble calcium oxalate) is a fairly common chemical in the environment with many pathways of being broken down or used.

 

[138S]

Hydroquinone is used in some skin whitening creams, but many countries have banned this use due to health concerns.

Anyway, see the situation, you may buy at Amazon 2% hydroquinone creams for your skin and later taking a shower, so it may be not that dangerous if not dinking developer in the darkroom, we have no need to touch it...

 

[ChristopherCoy]

I'm glad this discussion was posted, and recently too!

Here's a question from a different perspective. We live on a boat, and anything we pour down the kitchen sink, goes right overboard and into the water. So we have to be extremely conscious of what we use. Would caffenol be safe to pour overboard without any harm to marine life in the immediate area? And what about fixers without the hassel of silver recovery?

 

[Donald Qualls]

I'm glad this discussion was posted, and recently too!

Here's a question from a different perspective. We live on a boat, and anything we pour down the kitchen sink, goes right overboard and into the water. So we have to be extremely conscious of what we use. Would caffenol be safe to pour overboard without any harm to marine life in the immediate area? And what about fixers without the hassel of silver recovery?

If you're in a city harbor, I wouldn't worry much about any dilute one-shot developer in single tank quantities or mix-and-toss strength plain hypo. If you're anchored over a coral reef, I'd be concerned about even flushing the head.

That to say, if you dump, say, a liter of developer, by the time it's out of contact with your hull, it's already been diluted by hundreds to one. You'd need a targeted chemical analysis to even detect it by the time it's diffused out into even a small cove. I would seriously not worry about any of the Caffenol variants I know in any populated waters. Coffee itself is slightly toxic to some life (dogs, for instance), so I wouldn't dump even Caffenol on a reef or in a tropical lagoon -- but I wouldn't hesitate to dump it into even a fairly small natural lake or reservoir, never mind a harbor with ships, outboard powered boats, street runoff, and heaven only knows what else in the water.

Stop bath likewise -- it doesn't dissolve anything from the film, it's just vinegar, sometimes with an indicator to tell you when it's almost done. Perfectly safe if you're not anchored on a coral reef.

I wouldn't discard exhausted fixer overboard, even in a mildly polluted harbor, because of the silver. Silver is a toxic heavy metal, though we don't usually think of it as such. None the less, if you do dilution calculations, copper and lead from pipes (yes, copper pipes were soldered with lead solder until about twenty years ago, sometimes still are if a homeowner does her own repairs), bronze propellers, etc. and runoff from trash dumping overwhelm anything you're likely to dump from your on-board darkroom activities. No, "everyone else does it" doesn't make it right; store your exhausted fixer and dispose of it correctly, on shore, when you can.

If you simply can't store reused and exhausted fixer aboard (boats are a pretty confined space, I'm well aware -- the ones normal people can afford, even as a replacement for a house, make my parents' little travel trailer I towed behind a passenger sedan when I was a teen look like a mansion), mix plain hypo from crystals at 60 g/l, use it once in two-bath mode (fix half the time in Fixer A, then the rest in Fixer B) to ensure full fixing on tabular grain films, and put it overboard with a clear conscience as long as you're in populated waters (or well out to sea in deep water).

 

[ChristopherCoy]

If you're in a city harbor, I wouldn't worry much about any dilute one-shot developer in single tank quantities or mix-and-toss strength plain hypo. ....but I wouldn't hesitate to dump it into even a fairly small natural lake or reservoir, never mind a harbor with ships, outboard powered boats, street runoff, and heaven only knows what else in the water.

Yeah, we're in a city marina, with a shipyard, right off the Houston ship channel. It's common to have worse than fixer floating around. Not long ago, the our basin (which for some reason catches all the trash with the tide swings) was filled with a diesel slick!

ETA: Our boat is 40 feet, so I do have room to store a jug of fixer, and discard it through the city water system.

 

[removed account4]

OP
If you are doing a commercial business of photo processing you want to do everything ABOVE BOARD. The EU is strict for chemical recycling, I wouldn't take advice from anyone on this website, unless they are from the EU and have a BW lab. Fines can be stiff. I'm not in the EU and I don't claim to know what you need to do, I know years ago a colleague of mine didn't do his homework and was fined $100,000.00.

Do your homework find out what you need to do, I wouldn't fly under the radar.

Good luck and stay healthy / safe !
John

 

[Donald Qualls]

@jnantz Nice catch, but I'm pretty sure The Armpit of Texas isn't in EU. Further, I'd be very surprised to hear of someone doing photo processing as a commercial business from a boat (even a 40 footer).

@ChristopherCoy I don't think I'd want to discard spent fixer through a city sewer system, either, because the silver is bad for the bacteria in the sewage treatment system. I've done it, but when I did, I was mixing "weak" fixer directly from hypo crystals, using it once, and discarding it; there was little enough silver in each batch, and I did few enough in a year, not to be worrisome. The higher concentration in spent rapid fixer, for instance, could produce a large enough slug of silver to cause trouble (even though, in another thread, someone who claimed to know said the silver will precipitate out as the insoluble sulfide almost instantly in contact with ordinary sewage).

Any photo lab has the ability to correctly dispose of spent fixer, though whether they'll take yours is in question (most pay someone to take it away -- someone who usually recovers the silver from it to make a second paycheck from the work). Dropping a few wads of steel wool into the bucket with the spent fixer will precipitate out the silver, and the remaining will act as fertilizer for plants (especially those, like roses, that like some extra sulfur). The steel wool (with silver flock) can then be compressed to be compact enough to sell as "contaminated recovered silver" to metal recyclers. You won't get anything like silver spot price, but it should pay better than the same weight of aluminum cans -- probably twice the cost of the steel wool, at the least.