Most affordable approach to film

LMNOP · Mar 6, 2015

APUG!

I have been reading so many outdated threads, this kind of info seems to have evolved quite a bit. It seems like I'm paying more for film than ever, maybe because of how fast I've been going through it, I don't know for sure... I currently send my film out for developing, its $8 per roll, develop only. If I shoot an $8 roll of Fuji 400H Pro, on my GW690, thats $2 per frame. Does anyone else ever do the math like that? This runs through my head when framing a shot sometimes, it has actually produced higher quality work, given the motivation of not wasting money.

Anyone have a good source for buying film in bulk? Ever buy direct from manufacturer? Just making sure I've thought this through, I just buy film from BH, usually 10-12 rolls at a time.

shutterlight · Mar 6, 2015

I could never handle that kind of cost. I drop my 120 film off locally and pay $4.50 a roll. Until just recently, Portra 400 had been parked at $29 for a five pack for awhile. I've generally buy five to six 5 packs at a time from B&H. My work is heavily dependent on both that one particular film, and the camera that I use (Mamiya 7) that it has to work for me, and it has for a couple years now.

bvy · Mar 6, 2015

I think like that when I'm shooting Polaroid (Impossible). If you develop you're own color film, the "price per frame" drops significantly.

RattyMouse · Mar 6, 2015

LMNOP said:
APUG!

I have been reading so many outdated threads, this kind of info seems to have evolved quite a bit. It seems like I'm paying more for film than ever, maybe because of how fast I've been going through it, I don't know for sure... I currently send my film out for developing, its $8 per roll, develop only. If I shoot an $8 roll of Fuji 400H Pro, on my GW690, thats $2 per frame. Does anyone else ever do the math like that? This runs through my head when framing a shot sometimes, it has actually produced higher quality work, given the motivation of not wasting money.

Anyone have a good source for buying film in bulk? Ever buy direct from manufacturer? Just making sure I've thought this through, I just buy film from BH, usually 10-12 rolls at a time.

I just finished one bottle of HC-110. I paid something like $30 for it and was able to process two years worth of film almost. I don't know the exact amount but well over 100 rolls of film. Fixer is cheap and I bet my cost per roll of film for developing is $1 or less.

Time for you to shoot and develop your own black and white film.

LMNOP · Mar 6, 2015

shutterlight said:
I could never handle that kind of cost. I drop my 120 film off locally and pay $4.50 a roll. Until just recently, Portra 400 had been parked at $29 for a five pack for awhile. I've generally buy five to six 5 packs at a time from B&H. My work is heavily dependent on both that one particular film, and the camera that I use (Mamiya 7) that it has to work for me, and it has for a couple years now.

I am starting to buy Ektar by the five pack, it's a good deal for the results I get. I tend to switch up the film type a bit. What has kept you settled on Portra 400 and just one camera for so long? I like the idea of having such a consistent thing down, that is cool.

my local shop will develop for $4.95 but I have been lead to believe that their processing is cheaper and less conside rate toward the particular film type. I've been trying a mail away service but I haven't yet been convinced that it's worth it, still testing. It would save a lot of money going back to local but I hate to think I am sacrificing something in the signal chain, if you will.

LMNOP · Mar 6, 2015

RattyMouse said:
I just finished one bottle of HC-110. I paid something like $30 for it and was able to process two years worth of film almost. I don't know the exact amount but well over 100 rolls of film. Fixer is cheap and I bet my cost per roll of film for developing is $1 or less.

Time for you to shoot and develop your own black and white film.

Oh man, you are revealing a deep and dark rabbit hole I have avoided for years. I developed film in school but did not retain any of that knowledge. I would love to pick it up again but it seems like there are way too many variables to track, so many inferential possibilities with timing and chemicals, then it needs space to dry, it seems overwhelming, not to mention my love for color. If you have some elaborate thoughts to share, anyone, feel free to PM me, I would love to hear more perspective on home developing 120mm.

MattKing · Mar 7, 2015

Developing black and white film and getting usable results is actually quite straightforward.

You can make it more complex if you want.

If you can follow simple directions, and work methodically, you can get superb results.

I was eleven years old when I started developing film, and the equipment is way easier to use now.

All my stuff fits nicely in a couple of plastic totes - I don't have a permanent darkroom.

F5B&W · Mar 7, 2015

LMNOP said:
Oh man, you are revealing a deep and dark rabbit hole I have avoided for years. I developed film in school but did not retain any of that knowledge. I would love to pick it up again but it seems like there are way too many variables to track, so many inferential possibilities with timing and chemicals, then it needs space to dry, it seems overwhelming, not to mention my love for color. If you have some elaborate thoughts to share, anyone, feel free to PM me, I would love to hear more perspective on home developing 120mm.

Don't get overwhelmed and weirded out. If you can cook, you can process film - and I mean reheating soup cooking, not gourmet.

RattyMouse · Mar 7, 2015

LMNOP said:
Oh man, you are revealing a deep and dark rabbit hole I have avoided for years. I developed film in school but did not retain any of that knowledge. I would love to pick it up again but it seems like there are way too many variables to track, so many inferential possibilities with timing and chemicals, then it needs space to dry, it seems overwhelming, not to mention my love for color. If you have some elaborate thoughts to share, anyone, feel free to PM me, I would love to hear more perspective on home developing 120mm.

There are all of two real time variables to track, time and temperature. The rest is done at your leisure. I do all my work in one of my bathrooms. I hang my film to dry in the shower. It takes no space at all. Everything i needed to learn to do this I learned here from the kind, generous folks at APUG.org.

Super, SUPER, easy.

Oren Grad · Mar 7, 2015

LMNOP said:
my local shop will develop for $4.95 but I have been lead to believe that their processing is cheaper and less considerate toward the particular film type. I've been trying a mail away service but I haven't yet been convinced that it's worth it, still testing. It would save a lot of money going back to local but I hate to think I am sacrificing something in the signal chain, if you will.

C-41 processing is standardized - unlike with B&W, all films that use the C-41 process need and get the same treatment. What differentiates labs is how careful they are in executing the standardized process, how carefully and cleanly they handle your film and package your finished negatives, how quick their turnaround is, and how good their customer relations and service are.

Processing C-41 is well within reach for a home darkroom. But although you may save some out-of-pocket expense, unless you value your time at close to nothing, you won't really save overall. Of course, if you enjoy the process, it can be worth doing anyway.

Truzi · Mar 7, 2015

I don't think in cost-per-frame; only about cost-per-roll when comparison shopping between stores (not between brands). I really don't even think about the cost of the developer, other than whether I can afford to buy some at any given time.
My thinking will probably shift a bit when I get a 4x5 camera.

I do try to save money, but in the end, I will budget for what I want. For me it is the enjoyment, feeling of accomplishment when developing, and working toward a degree of self-reliance.

shutterlight · Mar 7, 2015

LMNOP said:
I am starting to buy Ektar by the five pack, it's a good deal for the results I get. I tend to switch up the film type a bit. What has kept you settled on Portra 400 and just one camera for so long? I like the idea of having such a consistent thing down, that is cool.

my local shop will develop for $4.95 but I have been lead to believe that their processing is cheaper and less conside rate toward the particular film type. I've been trying a mail away service but I haven't yet been convinced that it's worth it, still testing. It would save a lot of money going back to local but I hate to think I am sacrificing something in the signal chain, if you will.

I photograph only in color, and Portra 400 is a remarkable film. Of course, options today are highly limited, but it's outstanding regardless of whether it has a few competitors or a dozen. As for a camera, I'm deeply biased toward rangefinders, and there's nothing that can compare to the 7 in my mind. It's as if it was made for me personally. It fits my hands, the focusing precision is extremely fine, and the sharpness of the 80/4 and 65/4 is almost without peer. I also generally believe in finding something that works for you and sticking with it. Less time thinking about technology and more time thinking about pictures.

gone · Mar 7, 2015

The high cost of colour film and lab processing is what has run a lot of people over to digital. Myself, I couldn't live w/ the hit you take in quality. There really is no comparison between a good color film shot and a digital pic, but some people make the trade off due to the cost. Obviously, the best way to make it affordable is to do it yourself. The relatively small cost of getting set up initially is paid back very rapidly in the money you save vs sending it out.

A majority of the people here probably shoot B&W and develop/print it themselves. It's easy, and the cost per shot is peanuts, unless you shoot some of these specialty films, or shoot large format. All you need is a kitchen sink (or bathroom sink, garage sink, etc) and you hang the film to dry in the tub area. Printing can be done in a bathroom or a bedroom. I've been doing this for years. There are excellent youtube videos that walk you through every step of the process. The learning curve is not bad at all. Very doable. You also learn a lot more about the photographic process and have total control over your image. Colour, the way I understand it, requires working in total darkness for some (or all, I don't know) of the darkroom work, and you have to be fussier about getting times and temps right. But it's surely something I could learn if I shot colour and was properly motivated. In this case, the cost would be my motivation.

I also understand that some people don't want to deal w/ that, and that's perfectly valid and fine. In which case, you have to bite the bullet and pay the going rate for a lab to do it. Myself, the motivation to do my own work wasn't totally about money, it was about having labs screw up my film so many times it wasn't funny. Scratches, dust, poor processing, etc.

JW PHOTO · Mar 7, 2015

momus said:
The high cost of colour film and lab processing is what has run a lot of people over to digital. Myself, I couldn't live w/ the hit you take in quality. There really is no comparison between a good color film shot and a digital pic, but some people make the trade off due to the cost. Obviously, the best way to make it affordable is to do it yourself. The relatively small cost of getting set up initially is paid back very rapidly in the money you save vs sending it out.

A majority of the people here probably shoot B&W and develop/print it themselves. It's easy, and the cost per shot is peanuts, unless you shoot some of these specialty films, or shoot large format. All you need is a kitchen sink (or bathroom sink, garage sink, etc) and you hang the film to dry in the tub area. Printing can be done in a bathroom or a bedroom. I've been doing this for years. There are excellent youtube videos that walk you through every step of the process. The learning curve is not bad at all. Very doable. You also learn a lot more about the photographic process and have total control over your image. Colour, the way I understand it, requires working in total darkness for some (or all, I don't know) of the darkroom work, and you have to be fussier about getting times and temps right. But it's surely something I could learn if I shot colour and was properly motivated. In this case, the cost would be my motivation.

I also understand that some people don't want to deal w/ that, and that's perfectly valid and fine. In which case, you have to bite the bullet and pay the going rate for a lab to do it. Myself, the motivation to do my own work wasn't totally about money, it was about having labs screw up my film so many times it wasn't funny. Scratches, dust, poor processing, etc.

momus,
I agree with most of what you say, but the "Hit in quality part" about digital is where I have to jump off the train. Different, yes! Lesser quality, no! I shoot both and each has its place, but one is NOT better than the other. If cost is your main concern? Don't even think about film then or you'll soon change your mind. That's even if you do your own processing and printing. The cost of film is just much higher per picture/shot and that's a fact. Now, if you ask me what I like to waste my time on that's different. I'll gladly waste my time with film and a darkroom. I used to make all my spending money shooting weddings every fricking weekend and if I were to go back into it now it sure wouldn't be with any film camera that's for sure. Same goes for sport photographers and film. Find me a sports photographer that shoots film and you win a Kewpie Doll. It took me about 65 years to learn two things in life not to say. Never say never and absolutely 'cause there are no absolutes. P.S. I still prefer film the old fashion way just like my 20 year old slippers. I'm comfortable with both. John W

polyglot · Mar 7, 2015

Developing your own is totally easy, especially since you're not talking about E6*. Read through the FAQ link in my signature and process a bunch of rolls of B&W to get you used to the process (20 of one type would be a good start). Should be something like 50c/roll in chemical costs.

Once you have the B&W working reliably, you can get C41 kits that are also really easy to use. I tend to buy the Rollei and Fuji C41 kits from Germany and the UK and have them shipped to Australia, which means I pay as much for shipping as I do for the chemicals. And yet, it still costs me only about $1/roll for processing at home, which is a big improvement on the $10/roll+ that my local lab charges.

While some people like to make processing super-complicated, it does not need to be at all. Just follow the instructions, be careful and it will work. Note though that you will be spending significant labour instead of money. I have about the perfect setup at home (Jobo CPP2 and home made dryer cabinet) which will do 6 rolls per batch, yet it still takes me basically 90 minutes of direct labour to do each batch of C41, which is 15 minutes per roll plus drying time, so I struggle to process more than 18 or 24 rolls in a full day.

In terms of film supply, some cameras can take 70mm film. It's less available now but I have 100' of Portra and about 2000' of assorted B&W in my freezer that I shoot in my RZ67 with an RB67 70mm back. Some of that I paid no more than 20% of the current market price (per frame) for 120. Oh, and 50-70 shots per camera-load; some love that, some hate it.

Expired film can often be found cheap and works as good as new as long as it was well-kept. Not so much in colour though so learn to like B&W too

* E6 is totally doable at home but it is a bit more complicated, more finicky with temperature and with more opportunities for error. If you love chromes then you should consider developing your own but at least get C41 working reliably first.

marton · Mar 7, 2015

I almost quite shooting 120 a short time ago due to the costs. Why bother, just shoot digital 35mm and when you can afford it get a phase one. But film's too compelling, too interesting a process, and the results, too good to give up on, so instead I bought two new medium format cameras and an after market film holder for my scanner - for colour shots. I'm fortunate in that I can develop and print B&W for free at University. I think the cost is just something we have to put up with if we're going to keep shooting film, and I'm going to keep shooting film. I like Fuji Pro 400H myself, but if anyone can steer me toward something cheaper that can deliver similar results, I can listen.

Moopheus · Mar 7, 2015

Unfortunately for 120 there is not really a good way to buy bulk and avoid the costs of packaging, as you can with 35mm long rolls or even 4x5 to some extent. You could shoot 70mm as polyglot suggests, but that limits your choice of camera and you'll have to hunt around for the appropriate back.

I have mixed feeling about working with color, though, for myself, because of my color blindness. I could probably manage processing it but I don't think I could print it without the color management tools that I can get with scans.

LMNOP · Mar 7, 2015

polyglot said:
Developing your own is totally easy, especially since you're not talking about E6*. Read through the FAQ link in my signature and process a bunch of rolls of B&W to get you used to the process (20 of one type would be a good start). Should be something like 50c/roll in chemical costs.

Once you have the B&W working reliably, you can get C41 kits that are also really easy to use. I tend to buy the Rollei and Fuji C41 kits from Germany and the UK and have them shipped to Australia, which means I pay as much for shipping as I do for the chemicals. And yet, it still costs me only about $1/roll for processing at home, which is a big improvement on the $10/roll+ that my local lab charges.

While some people like to make processing super-complicated, it does not need to be at all. Just follow the instructions, be careful and it will work. Note though that you will be spending significant labour instead of money. I have about the perfect setup at home (Jobo CPP2 and home made dryer cabinet) which will do 6 rolls per batch, yet it still takes me basically 90 minutes of direct labour to do each batch of C41, which is 15 minutes per roll plus drying time, so I struggle to process more than 18 or 24 rolls in a full day.

In terms of film supply, some cameras can take 70mm film. It's less available now but I have 100' of Portra and about 2000' of assorted B&W in my freezer that I shoot in my RZ67 with an RB67 70mm back. Some of that I paid no more than 20% of the current market price (per frame) for 120. Oh, and 50-70 shots per camera-load; some love that, some hate it.

Expired film can often be found cheap and works as good as new as long as it was well-kept. Not so much in colour though so learn to like B&W too

* E6 is totally doable at home but it is a bit more complicated, more finicky with temperature and with more opportunities for error. If you love chromes then you should consider developing your own but at least get C41 working reliably first.

Interesting, I had not considered 70mm. I primarily shoot an RZ, so I would be open to the idea.

LMNOP · Mar 7, 2015

My immediate solution is to stick with one type of film for a bit, buy by the box. If I shoot 220 - my local shop still only charges 5 bucks to develop, so there is a major savings there. The only issue is the limitations of 220 variety, but portra 400 is all I really need when I am being honest with myself.

As for BW, I would like to get a basic kit and have that ability. I do not shoot a lot of BW but when I do, the results are great, I do love it. I just feel like I've missed out sometimes when I load it up. A nice balance would be shooting and developing my own BW and keeping local with that color, in 220. I am waiting for my USPS carrier today, they'll be bringing 4 rolls of various film that I had developed in NYC, I am told by another photographer that I'll be blown away by the difference. Considering the shipping costs and the fast-talking new yorker that didn't give me the chance to ask a single question about his processing, I am not so sure its worth 3 times the money. We'll see, I'll be scanning all afternoon.

You guys are so helpful, I cannot thank you enough. I really look forward to reading your feedback, around here, there are not so many film enthusiasts...

CropDusterMan · Mar 7, 2015

Hi LMNOP,
Well, IMO, Shooting color film these days doesn't make a ton of sense to me, 'cause you're going to scan it anyway right?
I don't scan. Color is Dig....black and white is printed in the darkroom.
Dev your own fill to save money. It's pretty simple mate. For BW I use PMK Pyro and it's very economical. Part of the problem is with many photographers today, when they went digital, they turned into machine guns...shooting
a ridiculous amount of frames to get the shot. Volume of images went up, quality plummeted.
I feel digital can really make a photographer lazy. Not processing your own film is too...unless of course we're
talking color...life has made that tougher.

Years ago working as a stringer for the wire service, digital was in its infancy...it sucked. I shot 35 neg at sports events, then hand processed with Jobo hand tanks. AGFA made these great C41 kits, and I had a Rubbermade tub half filled with
water, with two fish tank heaters at 42 C. Loaded reels in a dark bag, processed, then loaded reels into a DIY dryer made out of a dryer vent tube with a hair dryer attached at the top...I got so fast at it, I was beating many of the digital photographers to the server uploads with higher quality images...ah, the good old days.

When I shoot film, (BW) which is most of what I do now despite having a full digital system, I am selective,
especially with med. format. I use less frames to achieve a good image. Slow down, take the time to compose, be selective...edit in the camera.

Dirtiest words in photography..."We'll fix it in post".

Steve Bellayr · Mar 7, 2015

Photography has always been an expensive hobby or enterprise. The object is to make each photograph count thereby reducing waste and costs.

removedacct1 · Mar 7, 2015

I cannot imagine being intimidated by B&W film processing done at home. I do it in the kitchen sink and I can have a finished roll of film from loading the tank to hanging up to dry in as little as 25 minutes. (Depending on the film type and the dev time, of course)
But if its color you plan on sticking with, there aren't the same options for reducing the cost. Its always going to cost nearly 2X as much.

frank · Mar 7, 2015

Learning photography in my university days, I began with colour neg film and paid for commercial processing and prints. Joining the school photography club I had access to their darkroom, and learned b+w film developing and printing.

After leaving school, I no longer had access to a darkroom so I switched to shooting slides for many years.

After getting married and buying a house, I built a darkroom and switched to b+w film and darkroom printing, primarily for economic reasons, and have been doing this for the last 20 years.

Short answer: home develop b+w film. Print output in traditional wet darkroom, or scan your negs and print digitally. (Sorry, I just had to mention that as an option.)

LMNOP · Mar 7, 2015

I know there are a lot of scan haters out there, but I like to have digital copies of all my work, and for that I scan every single negative, and that is their primarily existence.

What I'm looking for is a basic BW dev kit for the home. I can do the processing in my kitchen sink and hang the negs in my bathtub. If I shoot three rolls of BW in a weekend, it would be really nice to just develop the negatives myself, then scan/preserve for the future date when I have access to a print facility. Anyone have suggestions for BW kits?

removedacct1 · Mar 7, 2015

LMNOP said:
I know there are a lot of scan haters out there, but I like to have digital copies of all my work, and for that I scan every single negative, and that is their primarily existence.

What I'm looking for is a basic BW dev kit for the home. I can do the processing in my kitchen sink and hang the negs in my bathtub. If I shoot three rolls of BW in a weekend, it would be really nice to just develop the negatives myself, then scan/preserve for the future date when I have access to a print facility. Anyone have suggestions for BW kits?

If you are going to process three rolls every weekend, you don't need a "kit", you just need basic tools: a tank, some developer and some fixer. You can skip the stop bath and use water rinse and it will be fine. If you use a Rapid Fix and fix for the minimum amount of time, you can do the fast "Ilford Wash" and you won't need hypo clear. For cost effectiveness and to avoid mixing and storing a developer, you can opt for Rodinal or HC110. This can be as simple or as complicated as you want - but I prefer simplicity. I'm in love with the results, not the process.

Most affordable approach to film

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