More "new" colour films

Steve@f8 · Dec 29, 2023

koraks said:
Yes, that's to be expected. You could probably balance this out almost entirely in digital post processing, however.

Everyone seems to want a piece of the repurposed 'alternative' film these days. I admit, I also couldn't resist, but I just got a big roll of Vision3 250D, develop at home and remove the remjet after processing. Works a treat. Since you're in the UK, this may be attractive for you (check frame24.co.uk) if you are willing to commit to a whole 400ft (or even 1000ft) roll.

somehow I forget about post processing correction when I have my film head on, but that makes sense.

cmacd123 · Dec 29, 2023

Steve@f8 said:
Typo there, I meant Remjet.
Thanks for confirming it’s basically Cinestill, so Candido 800 will come out a bit blue in daylight if used without a warming filter.

MOvie Tungsten films all are suposed to be used with an 85 (not an 85A, although that is close enough) filter. back when it was a thing to offer slides from negs from many small Movie Labs, I did get burned at least one time when I overexposed without the 85 filter, and managed to blow out just the Bleu colours.

lamerko · Dec 30, 2023

cmacd123 said:
MOvie Tungsten films all are suposed to be used with an 85 (not an 85A, although that is close enough) filter. back when it was a thing to offer slides from negs from many small Movie Labs, I did get burned at least one time when I overexposed without the 85 filter, and managed to blow out just the Bleu colours.

There is a bit of confusion with these filters. Technically, the "correct" filter is 85B, which warms from 5500K to 3200K, as tungsten films are balanced. And the filter 85 without a letter warms up to 3400K. In reality, 200K is not much, and daylight varies in a very large range depending on the atmospheric conditions and the time range. But in many places it has become a household name when it says "filter 85", in fact it is about 85B.

Agulliver · Dec 30, 2023

Quick update as the thread is active again.

I've ordered more of the Candido 800 film as it's just sooo good for gigs, and being regular C41 process I can hand it into the lab around the corner.

I have shot one of the "Poly Film Lab" films and had it processed, absolutely nothing wrong but being ECN2 the processing cost more and my local lab can't do it. But the film itself did exactly what I wanted. I've also had some B&W cine film processed by Poly Film Lab....took quite a while but their hand processing was fairly consistent, probably better than my own and half the price of machine processing with other labs. They told me that they're two or three volunteers working at the lab on weekends so turnaround can be an issue when they've received a lot of films for processing. But they did it, and I'm happy with the products and services of both them and Candido.

cmacd123 · Dec 30, 2023

lamerko said:
There is a bit of confusion with these filters. Technically, the "correct" filter is 85B, which warms from 5500K to 3200K, as tungsten films are balanced. And the filter 85 without a letter warms up to 3400K. I

As I was saying, the "correct" filter in MP practice is a #85 Although like many other things, the astute Photographer will run carefully controlled tests and make their own decisons. BUT Kodak's data sheets do suggest the PLAIN #85
see the chart on page two of this sheet for 5219, perhaps the most popular of the Vision films https://www.kodak.com/content/products-brochures/Film/VISION3-5219-7219-sell-sheet-EN.pdf

lamerko · Dec 31, 2023

cmacd123 said:
View attachment 358319

As I was saying, the "correct" filter in MP practice is a #85 Although like many other things, the astute Photographer will run carefully controlled tests and make their own decisons. BUT Kodak's data sheets do suggest the PLAIN #85
see the chart on page two of this sheet for 5219, perhaps the most popular of the Vision films https://www.kodak.com/content/products-brochures/Film/VISION3-5219-7219-sell-sheet-EN.pdf

You should note three things:
1. In your filter information, we have an adjustment from 5300K to 3200K. In others, for example Tiffen, in the description there is a correction from 5500 to 3400K, which is exactly the same;
2. The balance of modern tungsten films is 3200K, and the definition of "daylight" is 5500K. The balance of "day" films such as 250D and practically all normal C-41 is 5500K;
3. In the Kodak document from the link you indicated, there is the following explanation (screenshot attached);

In other words, it means a filter that warms from 5500K (daylight) to 3200K (tungsten balance). This is the 85B filter. The descriptions say filter 85, but it's probably the whole series. But again - this is just wording, in practice the light is never exactly 5500K or 3200K. And it is not particularly important for C-41 and ECN-2 films. But it would matter at E-6. For the 500T (5219) specifically, Kodak says 200K more or less is no problem:

These films are balanced for exposure with tungsten illumination (3200K). You can also expose them with tungsten lamps that have slightly higher or lower color temperatures (+/- 200K) without correction filters since final color balancing can be done in post-production.

koraks · Dec 31, 2023

lamerko said:
adjustment from 5300K to 3200K. In others, for example Tiffen, in the description there is a correction from 5500 to 3400K, which is exactly the same;

No, I don't think you can equate 5300->3200 and 5500->3400 because in both cases the difference is 2100. It's not a linear scale. See e.ge. here: https://www.giangrandi.ch/optics/blackbody/blackbody.shtml And here: https://www.rp-photonics.com/color_temperature.html

In a practical amateur setting, I wouldn't worry about the intricacies. But be careful in interpreting the color temperature scale; there's a story hiding behind it.

lamerko · Dec 31, 2023

koraks said:
No, I don't think you can equate 5300->3200 and 5500->3400 because in both cases the difference is 2100. It's not a linear scale. See e.ge. here: https://www.giangrandi.ch/optics/blackbody/blackbody.shtml And here: https://www.rp-photonics.com/color_temperature.html

In a practical amateur setting, I wouldn't worry about the intricacies. But be careful in interpreting the color temperature scale; there's a story hiding behind it.

In my opinion, this is just a marketing approach, not a technical one. In both cases, it is a matter of filter #85

Tiffen 52mm 85 Color Conversion Filter

koraks · Dec 31, 2023

lamerko said:
this is just a marketing approach

Not sure if I understand you correctly. I was pointing out how color temperature relates to black body radiation spectra. This shows that the ratio between red and blue (which is how color temperature is simplistically/empirically determined) is non-linear for (seemingly) linear changes in color temperature. The product information for the Tiffen filter doesn't say that it'll drop 5300K to 3200K, probably because it doesn't....the numbers will be slightly off. Again, it's not a practical concern, but the whole thing wasn't to begin with...

Agulliver · Dec 31, 2023

The difference between log and linear scales are not marketing.

For amateur purposes, the two filters may be interchangeable. For a professional shooting a serious motion picture, they would not. Because they each do slightly different things.

lamerko · Dec 31, 2023

koraks said:
Not sure if I understand you correctly.

The idea is that if we use two filters with the same marking, they should be identical, even if they are from different manufacturers. Hoya 85 and Tiffen 85 should be the same. Otherwise they should not carry these markings. These marks are Kodak's as follows:

85 Series Color Conversion Chart
An 85 decreases the color temperature from 5500-3400 Kelvin
An 85A decreases the color temperature from 5500-3100 Kelvin
An 85B decreases the color temperature from 5500-3200 Kelvin
An 85C decreases the color temperature from 5500-3800 Kelvin

koraks · Dec 31, 2023

lamerko said:
if we use two filters with the same marking, they should be identical

Ah I see your point. Yes, you'd expect that! I do suspect manufacturers allow themselves minor liberties in implementation.

cmacd123 · Dec 31, 2023

Before I leave this, I should point out the Tiffen, among others make an 85N3 and 85N6 filter. a #85 combined with a ND. As while 5219 is quite handy in a studio, it is VERY fast when your camera can only practically use a 1/60 second range shutter speed. And your audience might find changing to 50D stock for outdoor shots to have a jarring difference in texture.

recall that the light does vary from place to place. Particularly with Latitude. SO a cinematographer may chose a different filter from the recommended #85 based on Her tests of the shots she is planning with the director. As well as the Post Production work flow.

More "new" colour films

Steve@f8

cmacd123

lamerko

Agulliver

cmacd123

lamerko

Attachments

koraks

Moderator

lamerko

koraks

Moderator

Agulliver

lamerko

koraks

Moderator

cmacd123

More "new" colour films

Attachments

Moderator

Moderator

Moderator

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency