More Mega Pixels!

[Deon]

Todays rant is about the hi-tech industry's merry-go-round of costly upgrades! My wife and I have been on the road, living out of our Sprinter conversion van for almost a year now. We were a couple of months into our road trip, wandering around in New Mexico, when an e-mail comes in from a long time client with a job offer. One of the largest assignments I have ever take on. Of course you take the assignment! But, one of the first comments from the client's is "Can you shoot larger files?" And, of course you say yes... I was happy with my Canon 5D MkII's (21Mp). But, for this client I purchased two Canon 5D sr bodies (50Mp). The larger files pointed out that some of my Canon "L" series lenses were not up to the task of the 5Dsr's sensor. Gone are all zoom lenses. The 16-35, 24-105 and 70-200 lenses were not sharp enough and had some pretty nasty chromatic aberrations showing up. Prime lenses were needed and fast as I was driving cross country and needed new lenses before I show up at the first of many locations to be photographed. I have a Canon TS-E 17mm lens and the 100mm Macro (these two lenses even looked better with the 5Dsr), so I picked up a TS-E 24mm MkII then I purchased the new TS-E 90mm lens. The TS-E 90mm wasn't sharp past 5 metres so I returned it and purchased the new 85mm 1.4 as well as a 200mm 2.8 MkII. These new lenses were all happy with the 50 Mega Pixel camera bodies. The files are larger so I needed more portable hard drives to store and back up along the way. Ultimately needing eight 4Tb drives to store my work and back-up everything... It wasn't long before my five year old MacBook Pro started to disagree with larger files, especially when large folders were being put through an Adobe Bridge or Lightroom function, ultimately ending in a bad way for the computer (permanent fatal error). So, a new MacBook Pro... It's newest operating system opened up a can of worms concerning software updates. Several very expensive applications required entirely new purchases, others just needed updates at a cost, of course!

The purchase of two Canon 5Dsr's were the cheapest part of the equation. Over all I'm very happy with the new cameras and lenses, I was luck to have a client drive the change, but at great expense?

Best,

Deon
www.deonreynolds.com

 

[faberryman]

Not sure why this is characterized as a merry-go-round of upgrades. The client wanted higher quality work than your 10 year old cameras could provide. As it was, you were living on borrowed time.

 

[trendland]

Todays rant is about the hi-tech industry's merry-go-round of costly upgrades! My wife and I have been on the road, living out of our Sprinter conversion van for almost a year now. We were a couple of months into our road trip, wandering around in New Mexico, when an e-mail comes in from a long time client with a job offer. One of the largest assignments I have ever take on. Of course you take the assignment! But, one of the first comments from the client's is "Can you shoot larger files?" And, of course you say yes... I was happy with my Canon 5D MkII's (21Mp). But, for this client I purchased two Canon 5D sr bodies (50Mp). The larger files pointed out that some of my Canon "L" series lenses were not up to the task of the 5Dsr's sensor. Gone are all zoom lenses. The 16-35, 24-105 and 70-200 lenses were not sharp enough and had some pretty nasty chromatic aberrations showing up. Prime lenses were needed and fast as I was driving cross country and needed new lenses before I show up at the first of many locations to be photographed. I have a Canon TS-E 17mm lens and the 100mm Macro (these two lenses even looked better with the 5Dsr), so I picked up a TS-E 24mm MkII then I purchased the new TS-E 90mm lens. The TS-E 90mm wasn't sharp past 5 metres so I returned it and purchased the new 85mm 1.4 as well as a 200mm 2.8 MkII. These new lenses were all happy with the 50 Mega Pixel camera bodies. The files are larger so I needed more portable hard drives to store and back up along the way. Ultimately needing eight 4Tb drives to store my work and back-up everything... It wasn't long before my five year old MacBook Pro started to disagree with larger files, especially when large folders were being put through an Adobe Bridge or Lightroom function, ultimately ending in a bad way for the computer (permanent fatal error). So, a new MacBook Pro... It's newest operating system opened up a can of worms concerning software updates. Several very expensive applications required entirely new purchases, others just needed updates at a cost, of course!

The purchase of two Canon 5Dsr's were the cheapest part of the equation. Over all I'm very happy with the new cameras and lenses, I was luck to have a client drive the change, but at great expense?

Best,

Deon
www.deonreynolds.com

Deon that is quite an interisting story! Two questions :
1) did you really wonder about your zoom lenses can't serve that characteristics you now need?
2) more megapixel = more resolution - OK!......hm but where is the physically restiction?
It is your MacBook (can't work with such big files)....?

no seriously beside the lens (in your case THE zoom lenses) would you agree with :
The limiting factor is (perhaps) the size of sensor? ....beside megapixel value onto sensors?

And at last : Phase one = 120 Megapixel! But I doubt a bit for a while in efficiancy of investigation?
up to 48.000,- bucks (without lens)....yes I realy doubt over weeks!
Is there next a New one out there of Phase One ? Could it have more Megapixel?
I was quite sure : " The New Phase one bolide will have 160Megapixel! Of 180Megapixel?
After a short look I realized : It IS OUT NOW : 150 Megapixel Phase one! Not more!
Same pricing to the first prices of 100MP Version!
But T H E N I was informed Nikon and Canon will come soon with 120Megapixel in small sensors?? (~10% smaller sized in comparison to full frame)

Deon what do you think? If you ever would buy a New camera - would you also need New lenses
again? I can't belive that Nikon AND Canon will bring out a complete New lens series :
To use with smaller sized Sensor cameras (APS C is well in mind)!
But to the other point : I can belive they thought about because it is their business -but would you change your system twice ?
For sure you also would need a faster MacBook again....?

with regards

 

[blockend]

I'm surprised the output of a professional 21mp full frame sensor camera didn't meet your clients needs. Martin Parr used the same camera, and I've seen pin sharp images from it printed several feet across in galleries. Editorial, fashion and billboard use requires lower resolution. I can imagine the best lenses would have advantages over zooms.

 

[jim10219]

That's the way it goes sometimes. Upgrades always seem to trigger a cascade of other upgrades.

I probably would have talked to the customer to figure out why they thought they needed more mega pixels. If their answer made sense, or I couldn't convince them otherwise, I probably would have rented to keep my costs down and maximize my profits. Unless, of course, I wanted an excuse to buy a new camera, in which case, you did the right thing.

 

[trendland]

I'm surprised the output of a professional 21mp full frame sensor camera didn't meet your clients needs. Martin Parr used the same camera, and I've seen pin sharp images from it printed several feet across in galleries. Editorial, fashion and billboard use requires lower resolution. I can imagine the best lenses would have advantages over zooms.

The surprise is also much on "Trendlands" side - be sure about blockend!
Listen : The beginning 90s the time B E F O R E digital photography! Film cameras came out of
use because of Video cameras (professional use more and more for TV documentary =
Sony Betacam system!). Some years later (1994) digital sensors came up for highest priced
TV equipment (~ 69.000,-) soon Sony offered new models each 2year period!

A TV station listed a couple of newest equipment acurate described from model, type of lens
a.s.o. AS standart for TV Teams who want to work for the network!
If you can't fullfill these new technical parameters you came of job for the network...!

Who had written these list of equipment? A technical director of the network?
No - a secretary.....at the same time the fees for freelancer teams find reduction
- 20 up to - 30%!!!!

Same play with digital equipment for photographers (from my point)!
But there is a real difference : The fees of freelancer photograpers have been allways much
lower in comparison of film workers (Motion Film)!

OK - the costs of digital foto equipment is also much lower in comparison!
A digital Arri Alexa has a todays pricing of min. 10 - 15 digital Nikon/Canon cameras!

So why more Megapixel ? Decisions today are sometimes the same AS I remember
30years ago - made from a secretary without competanced background!

But it is also dependable - some clients indeed need quality!

Do you know H&M? The scandinavian fashion manufacturer? Have a look at its todays
advertisings in big formats : That have the need of >100 Megapixel!

But agencies who get order to create campaigns for H&M will pay for photographers a fee
from that a photographer can afford a Phase one!

with regards

PS : Never make a deal with a secretary -exception it is a deal for the flight and the hotel!

 

[trendland]

That's the way it goes sometimes. Upgrades always seem to trigger a cascade of other upgrades.

I probably would have talked to the customer to figure out why they thought they needed more mega pixels. If their answer made sense, or I couldn't convince them otherwise, I probably would have rented to keep my costs down and maximize my profits. Unless, of course, I wanted an excuse to buy a new camera, in which case, you did the right thing.

Jim that is normal procedure = rental! And a quite good solution for the interims!

with regards

 

[Ces1um]

But, one of the first comments from the client's is "Can you shoot larger files?"

Out of legitimate curiosity, did they say why they needed larger files? Are they making huge prints or something?

 

[Wallendo]

Keeping up with technology is expensive and in some cases necessary. In this case, the upgrade was needed. he original poster now has a complete modern set-up which should last a few years at least

I don't make my living with my cameras, therefore, since my 24 MP DSLR I bought 7 years ago still works, I haven't upgraded. At times I'm tempted to pick up a full-frame sensor camera so that my lenses look the same on all cameras, but so far I have resisted. I have a plethora of "full frame" 35mm cameras with Kodak and Ilford "sensors". I know that a new digital camera might out-resolve my lenses and will take up twice as much disk space, which would just ne another expense. If I need higher resolution images, I'll use a medium format camera.

One of the things that brought me back to film photography was the sense that all digital equipment is outdated within 6 months. One of the web fora I visited seemed to be full of people replacing their equipment every 6-12 months whenever Sony came out with a newer model. For me photography is for fun so I stepped away.

 

[Ces1um]

One of the things that brought me back to film photography was the sense that all digital equipment is outdated within 6 months. One of the web fora I visited seemed to be full of people replacing their equipment every 6-12 months whenever Sony came out with a newer model. For me photography is for fun so I stepped away.

That's one of the reasons I switched to film back 6-7 years ago. I got tired of the upgrade cycle. However, turns out in practice I was no better off because I just bought film camera after film camera. Multiple formats, etc... Recently I bought a m43 camera. 16 mp is frankly more than what I need. In fact, my gopro with a 12mp still is more than sufficient for my needs in terms of resolution only. I rarely print and when I do it's usually no more than 8*10 so I could probably get away with even less. I just take photographs for fun though. I don't make a penny from anything I shoot.

 

[removed account4]

Hi Deon
I feel your pain, but what can you do? The beauty of it all is that it is all over and done with,
and now you have new cameras and lenses and a new laptop so you are all set for whatever comes your way.
Have fun !
John

 

[warden]

With these upgrades and the removal of legacy equipment you should be fine for years to come. I checked out your web site and it's excellent; the work is worth the investment for you and for your client.

I'll echo the other commenters wondering how the client knew of their need for more data in their images. I don't doubt the need, just curious what it might be.

 

[Paul Howell]

Over the past decade there has been lots of discussion concerning how may MP are enough. After reading what others have had to say I still don't know the best answer. Up to an 11X14 my 4MP Sigma SD9 (resloves around the same as a 8 or 9 MP CCD or CMOS sensor) is as good as my Sony A77. Even my Pentax K 2000 with 10 MP will do a respectable 16 X 20, going from 10 to 20MP I think I can see more detail in a 11X14, don't have a camera with more MP than the A77 so I dont know what I would gain by moving from my Sony A900 to a 42MP body. The current Sigma mirrorless body with the H size sensor is about 50MP in resolution. Thought about getting a used body, but then I need to upgrade my PC to efficiently process RAW files that size.

Why would a client want a file that large? Good question. When I was still shooting book covers with film one of the art directors demanded that I use a Hassabald which I would rent. (The other 2 folks I worked with didn't care) When I turned in in the transparencies he would put them a light table and say things like "you can always tell Ziess glass from the wanta bes." I shot my last assignment with a Yashica 124G. He couldn't tell the difference, got really mad when I told what I had done, he paid me anyway. So in some cases folks are setting requirements without much of a clue as to what they really need.

So how MP are enough?

 

[trendland]

So how MP are enough?

I guess there is a simple answer about = there are never enough megapixels!

I remember a discussion about TV screens some years ago : " Full HD is nice but there is no need
for 4k! "
Today 4k is normal (first 8K TV screens are ariving at local dealers )

Examples of the need of a todays value of min. 100MP (with large sized sensors = 53,7 x 40,4mm)

(C) H&M Studio - SS 19

(C) H&M Studio - SS 19


I watched these shots printed this week !
(Printed on backlighted displays in format 150 x 200 cm)

with regards

 

[Luckless]

More data = more information to work with = more options.

An often overlooked impact of having larger resolution files is how well automation tools can work.

If you throw more pixels covering the same content at things like automatic pixel selection tools in programs like Adobe Photoshop, then those tools can more reliably/consistently pick out finer and more detailed sections with less user input, because the system is fed more data that results in a lower level of 'guess work' for the algorithms. Of course if you don't have the computational horse power to handle it, then it might not be all that practical of an advantage.

A high pixel count allows photo finishing methods like super-sampling to a lower final pixel count for a cleaner and clearer final image. Possibly one of the biggest uses I've found.


But the digital world isn't the only one that sets off these sort of chain reactions. It just happens to pinch the pocket a bit more if you chase the latest and greatest every few years, because there is actually new latest and greatest to upgrade to...

Several years ago I bought myself a 'fancy' new medium format camera.
Then I needed to buy new gear to develop the film in...
Then I needed to get something to dry the film in so it didn't collect dust...
Then I needed a better way to store all the developed negatives I was collecting...
Then I need an enlarger to actually make prints with.
Then I need stuff to handle developing the prints in.
Film dryer doesn't work well for something as large as the prints I want, so best get something new for that...
I should probably buy stuff to make my own custom mats and framing.
I'll need new storage cupboards to stash all those extra materials in as well...
I'm also kind of liking large format, and I should do more with that.
I'll have to upgrade to a better tripod, as the one I have now really doesn't cut it with that Pressman.
Need more gear to handle developing more 4x5s...
Probably should have bought a 4x5 enlarger from the get go I guess? [haven't actually seen one for sale locally, wonder what shipping is like...]
Hopefully those film and print drying cabinets work well for the large format stuff...
All this bigger work needs larger tables and such so that I'm not having to always move stuff off my smallish desk...

My apartment is kind of small for all of that, and landlords probably aren't keen on me randomly plumbing in a proper darkroom... Guess I best look at upgrading to an $800,000 home, because my city's real estate market is kind of out of whack...

... Maybe a few thousands in digital camera gear, another few for a large format printer, and a nice computer I can play games on isn't that bad of an idea?
[Stupid large format film negatives and their awesome feelings they bring...]

I suspect my girlfriend might cause me bodily harm if I bring home an 8x10 camera...

 

[trendland]

More data = more information to work with = more options.

I suspect my girlfriend might cause me bodily harm if I bring home an 8x10 camera...

CHANGE the girfriend - not the format then - (8x10 has much more than 150MP)

The right girlfriend never cause you bodily harm ! She will be your best model and in case of
finiancial lack she will loan money from her millionaires dad to present you photo equipment
sportscar and country house!

with regards

PS : But beware of because from this moment you might be the slave of your father-in-law!

 

[Ko.Fe.]

So customer was paying for the gear upgrade and you are keeping it? Wowza....