More battery frustration

[xkaes]

You have incredible endurance and committment. I would have given up on that specific camera a long, long time ago.

99.9% of the time, this is not a problem. I just find it odd. If a battery doesn't work, I simply find one that does -- pretty much ignoring what my battery tester displays.

 

[koraks]

Faulty capacitors in TWO cameras -- probably more???

Many cameras suffer from faulty capacitor problems. Electrolytic capacitors age and ultimately die, and all these cameras are now several decades old.

 

[xkaes]

I'm not disputing that capacitors can go bad, but I've got lots of cameras from the 1970's with capacitors that are still functioning. And there are usually signs or symptoms of bad capacitors -- usually when the camera needs a lot of juice from the capacitor. I don't see that here, especially when the cameras work fine simply by changing the batteries. A "bad" capacitor will not start working by simply switching the battery.

 

[BobUK]

Not the answer to your problem, but take care if you use the Vivitar 283 flash on digital cameras.

Some have a very high trigger voltage and could possibly damage a digital camera.

Look for your flash in the following link.
Not all, but some could be harmful.
Worth a read.

Photo Strobe Trigger Voltages

www.botzilla.com

 

[btaylor]

Not the answer to your problem, but take care if you use the Vivitar 283 flash on digital cameras.

Some have a very high trigger voltage and could possibly damage a digital camera.

Look for your flash in the following link.
Not all, but some could be harmful.
Worth a read.

Photo Strobe Trigger Voltages

www.botzilla.com

I use a Wein Safe Sync for this- no need to worry after it’s installed. I don’t want to take any chances.

 

[xkaes]

The flash is no concern with the Maxxum 5. First it has a built-in flash, which is not activated by turning the camera ON -- so no effect on any capacitor -- and when I want a more powerful flash, I use a Minolta 2500D which uses the newer (four-pin, iISO) Maxxum flash shoe -- and is a lot smaller and lighter than my 283's.

What I might try with some of the NEW 3.3v CR2 batteries is to fire off the built-in flash several times and see if a lower voltage (3.2v) solves the problem. Who knows? I have nothing to loose -- but I don't want to wear out those pesky capacitors.

 

[wiltw]

Probably because typical lithium chemistry gives something like 3.2V/cell. This would take the power supply way over what the camera is designed for. There's also more modern 1.5V Lithium batteries (Li-FeS2), but I don't think they've been around for quite as long on the marketplace in any volume. So I suspect the warning is really with this issue in mind.

You sure your Minolta doesn't suffer from a leaky electrolytic capacitor somewhere? I can imagine this resulting in similar problems.

Lithium AA with 1.5V single use batteries have existed for many years before the modern Lithium Ion rechargeable batteries existed with 3.7V output. https://data.energizer.com/pdfs/lithiuml91l92_appman.pdf

"Energizer® lithium iron disulfide differs from alkaline batteries in chemistry and construction. They are built in a spiral construction featuring two long, thin electrodes rolled together to form a jellyroll shape. This shape provides almost 20 times more interfacial surface area than a standard alkaline. This large interface helps to meet the power demands of many of today’s devices. Lithium is the lightest, most active metal. When this powerful metal is paired with iron disulfide, this energy is available at a voltage suitable for 1.5 volt applications. Energizer® successfully produced the first commercially available “AA” size 1.5 volt lithium battery in 1989. The 1.5 volt “AAA” size followed in 2004. Electrodes in lithium iron disulfide batteries are isolated from one another by a highly engineered microporous polymer membrane. This membrane allows ions to move easily during normal use, but restricts this movement in certain abuse situations to ensure superior product performance and safety. Lithium iron disulfide batteries contain a non-aqueous electrolyte designed to operate even in extreme temperatures from as low as -40°C up to +60°C. They also include a resettable overcurrent safety device that protects the user by switching the battery off if it is misused in devices. Some of the advantages of the lithium iron disulfide (LiFeS2) system over the alkaline chemistry are:  Direct drop-in compatibility in applications using primary 1.5 volt “AA” and “AAA” battery sizes.  Far greater power than other primary battery types.  Provides longer service than other primary battery types in moderate to heavy"​

​

"Using an iron disulfide cathode gives a battery with a nominal voltage of 1.5 volts. Most other lithium batteries are 3.0 volt systems using cathodes comprising either solids (manganese dioxide or carbon monofluoride) or highly toxic liquids (sulfur dioxide or thionyl chloride). Finally, lithium batteries should not be confused with lithium ion rechargeable batteries."​

​

The lithium CR2 form factor batteries are rated for 3V output.
Higher in cost that alkaline AA, the benefit of the lithium AA is a very long shelf life...good for use in low usage, high reliability applications such as marine or aircraft emergency position beacons. Their 10 year life without battery change is important in such applications.

 

[xkaes]

What I might try with some of the NEW 3.3v CR2 batteries is to fire off the built-in flash several times and see if a lower voltage (3.2v) solves the problem. Who knows? I have nothing to loose -- but I don't want to wear out those pesky capacitors.

Well my "trick" seems to have worked. I fired the flash a dozen times at FULL POWER -- in a different camera -- i.e., one that turned on. Not surprisingly, the battery voltage dropped, and when inserted in the Maxxum 5 that would not turn on with 3.3v batteries, it turns ON fine now. I'm assuming that the "problem" is that the cameras are designed to work with batteries at a small range of voltage. Too high or too low and the camera just won't turn ON. Let's say 2.9-3.2v, or so.

 

[Chuck1]

In the 285/283 directions there is a section on forming the capacitor, even after long periods of sitting idle...

 

[qqphot]

Faulty capacitors in TWO cameras -- probably more???

Unfortunately yes - electrolytic capacitors are pretty commonly a limiting factor for the lifespan of electronics in general. For one, they have an absorbed liquid electrolyte inside which can dry out over time, changing the electrical characteristics; and beyond that there have been over the years a number of "bad batch" situations where specific manufacturing runs of them have proven to be especially short-lived.

 

[Pioneer]

I'm not disputing that capacitors can go bad, but I've got lots of cameras from the 1970's with capacitors that are still functioning. And there are usually signs or symptoms of bad capacitors -- usually when the camera needs a lot of juice from the capacitor. I don't see that here, especially when the cameras work fine simply by changing the batteries. A "bad" capacitor will not start working by simply switching the battery.

I do feel your pain. I have a Pentax PZ1p camera that I really enjoy working with but everytime the batteries die I go through a frustrating process of looking for the next set of batteries that the camera will accept. The last time I went through the process I ended up using a set of 4 Alkaline AA batteries to get it running again. We will see what it takes the next time. At least my Pentax LX still works using the LR44 button batteries but if they start failing I'll be back to using my Pentax K1000. At least it will still run with no batteries installed even though its' simplistic meter won't work without batteries.

 

[xkaes]

In an odd way, it's somehow nice to know that this battery problem -- NOT a capacitor problem -- is happening with other cameras. I've learned an important lesson -- when I by NEW batteries I'll test them for the voltage. If it's unusually high -- in this case 3.3v for a 3v CR2 battery, creating 6.6v (!!!) in the camera -- I'll know to "waste" some of the voltage, and get it down below 3.2v.

The cameras work fine once I do this. If the capacitors were bad, they would still malfunction with a slightly lower voltage in the batteries.

 

[xkaes]

I've discovered another "solution" to this situation. As I've mentioned before, TWO NEW 3v CR2 batteries (3.3v) create a voltage of 6.6v which apparently is too high for the Maxxum 5 cameras that I have tested. However, I've discovered that if I put a NEW CR2 (3.3v) in the camera with a USED CR2 (2.9v/3.0v/3.1v) reduces the juice enough to get the cameras working. Firing off a few flash exposures reduces the voltage in the 3,3v battery to get them to work correctly.

No capacitor replacement needed.

 

[BrianShaw]

Forgive me for asking a rude question, which I may have already asked, but what is so special about this camera that makes it worth that kind of effort? It’s great that you are solving a mystery but seems like a very complex thought process and possibly unreliability when using.

 

[xkaes]

Good question.

First, it appears not to be a "possibly unreliability when using.". My solutions seem to have solved the problem.

The problem of overly-charged new batteries is a reality -- and not just for this particular camera, as other responders have mentioned.

Secondly, the Maxxum 5 is the smallest and lightest full-featured SLR ever made.



https://blog.jimgrey.net/2022/02/21/minolta-maxxum-5/

https://www.dpreview.com/articles/4...rt-2-saved-by-the-minolta-maxxum-5-aaron-gold

http://quirkyguywithacamera.blogspot.com/2017/06/overshadowed-overachiever-minolta.html

 

[koraks]

a NEW CR2 (3.3v) in the camera with a USED CR2 (2.9v/3.0v/3.1v)

OK, don't keep this combination for long, though. You're recharging a non-rechargeable used battery with the new one. This will severely cut down the lifetime of the new battery. If you use this combination just to wear down a new battery enough to then pair it with an identically treated battery, that would be fine. A safer method (no risk of overheating the old battery and starting a fire) is to connect the new battery with an appropriate resistor and have it discharge to the desired level.

Btw, I agree that your experiments show that it's apparently not a capacitor problem. I also disagree with @BrianShaw that this would make these particular cameras unreliable; they seem to be just rather finicky about their power supply. And while I never actually owned one of these, they've always seemed rather nice cameras to me, with good optics, and often available at very friendly prices given the functionality they offer. I'd say it's worthwhile seeing how they can continued to be used.

 

[xkaes]

OK, don't keep this combination for long, though. You're recharging a non-rechargeable used battery with the new one. This will severely cut down the lifetime of the new battery. If you use this combination just to wear down a new battery enough to then pair it with an identically treated battery, that would be fine. A safer method (no risk of overheating the old battery and starting a fire) is to connect the new battery with an appropriate resistor and have it discharge to the desired level.

I agree completely. As I mentioned in my post, just firing off a few flashes should reduce the voltage enough in the NEW battery. Then it can be combined with another NEW battery that has been similarly treated -- devoltagized. This seems a more appropriate approach for the majority of us sorry SOB's who don't happen to have an "appropriate resistor" lying around, and a mechanism to "discharge to the desired level.".

 

[BrianShaw]

Thanks for the explanation. I was thinking “possibly unreliable “ only because it seems a rather unusual way to combine batteries. I was incorrectly assuming that there may be a problem as the batteries get used up. In hindsight , the camera will just stop working when batteries are depleted duh… I know that

 

[MFstooges]

I don't think he is charging the non rechargeable Lithium battery, he just discharges them on the different load to lower the voltage.
I am experiencing the same problem as him. I have Canon compact digicam and I usually use the regular dollar store battery or energizer alkaline. One time I spotted Duracells in a fancy resealable package and they are cheap so I bought them. As soon as I use these batteries, 9 out of 10 times when I turn on the camera there is message appears asking to replace the battery. I thought I got dead old stock batteries but when I checked with voltmeter their voltage is 1.6 V. The same digicam can still run with 1.3V battery.

 

[Pioneer]

Unreliable? I had one of these for years: couldn't kill it no matter how bad I treated it. It was quite literally my truck cam in the middle of Nevada with all the dust. Finally handed it off to one of my grandson's friends to take pictures during a hunting trip. It looked pretty bad but all you had to do was wipe off the lens, insert the batteries, load a roll and start shooting. I have never seen it since I gave it away but I would be willing to bet it is still taking pictures. Those old Max 5s' are probably one of the most trustworthy cameras you can own.

 

[xkaes]

Those old Max 5s' are probably one of the most trustworthy cameras you can own.

That's nice to know since I'm relatively new to the Max 5 world. I got my first, by accident. I bought a Tokina 24-200mm for $25, and a perfectly good Maxxum 5 was attached to it. When I checked the 200 page manual, I was amazed at what it does. I assumed it was an auto-everything type of rig, and it can be, but it can also do everything completely manual -- OK, except film advance.

I just wish there was a simple solution to this battery dilemma. It's really not that big a deal for me, because I like to use the battery pack (four AA ALKALINEs ONLY) with it, and I've never had a problem with those batteries. Maybe it's as simple as sticking to one brand of CR2 lithium batteries. I've only tried a few brands -- and they were all probably made in the same factory!!!

 

[eli griggs]

I'd start poking around for faulty electrolytic capacitors.

Sign-up for good personal insurance if you've not worked with capacitors before; they can be shockingly surprising.

 

[eli griggs]

In the 285/283 directions there is a section on forming the capacitor, even after long periods of sitting idle...

I have a number to of the 283 & 285 flash units and have only experienced a couple of non functioning units, one needed a new flash shoe, replaced with a metal shoe with a test button, and a unit, with a burned through wire at the power cable connector soldering juncture, a faulty I've read others have experienced fairly often, when their Vivitar 283 & 285 units fail, along with the plastic shoe breaking.

These units are worth learning to troubleshoot, but beware the capacitors, joking aside, we'ed all hate to hear a misadventure here, where a bad encounter causes a pacemaker or other medical device to go loco or kill someone outright.

I suggest you have some good electrical wire on hand, as the Vivitar stuff is a bit thin and short.

Metal shoes are great, but plastic shoes generally break, saving the camera and flash from more serious damage in misadventures.

Lastly, use a multimeter to check continuity at all normal power junctures, cord plug in, battery holder, contacts behind the flash contacts and make sure the meter can handle the amperage safely.

Someone professionally trained in camera and flash unit repairs, should do the repairs if you do not know how or you not want to risk injury or shock.

Good luck.

 

[ant!]

My Maxxum 7 uses the same CR2 batteries, but in mine they seem to run empty very fast, without using the internal flash. Tried different brands of cr2, but they are rather rare and mostly online only available. For this reason I use it mostly with the battery grip, with rechargeable AA which I have always around.

I am trying right now some EBL rechargeable CR2 (they have a USB plug on the side to charge, and state they are designed for cameras). Initial test is good, the camera fires. Still have to see how they are in the long run, as I prefer rechargeable wherever I can.

 

[xkaes]

Thanks for the suggestions. I've decided to try a another different brand of CR2. Who knows if it will make a difference, but the EBL rechargeables sound like a good idea -- BUT they are rated at 3.7v & are "slighty" larger than regular CR2 batteries, so I don't know.