more about the future of film?

[Helinophoto]

I think that the photographic community needs to promote film more in the younger segments.

I know a lot of young and up and coming photographers that are fascinated with the subject, but knowledge and teaching is scarce (except from when you are on the Internet).
The only thing that can keep things going, is that it exist a marked for the companies supplying film and analogue material, thus, stuff like lomography can only benefit the situation.

I am pretty sure that if you'd shown a 18 year old the process on _how_ to make a photo, from pressing the shutter at a location, to a finished print (from a scan or a wet-print), that person would be fascinated and interested to learn more and shoot analogue himself/herself.

The problem is, perhaps, that there are very few younger people being thought this these days, so the knowledge and the marked keeps getting smaller.

Maybe have a mantra "teach one youngster per year on how to shoot, develop and print using film" would be an idea?

 

[lxdude]

except my card got kind of nasty when i removed it from the caffenol

Well, it had the jitters real bad.

 

[benjiboy]

I don't own a digital camera and the only time I might consider buying one is if and when there is no more film, by which time I'll probably too old to get my head round the technology, hell I don't fully understand the wonders of film photography yet and I've been shooting for more than fifty years.

 

[RPippin]

For Helinphoto, I've gone to the local high school where photography is taught, and they still have a working darkroom, and volunteered my time to work with the students. I've taken on a couple a year for internships, and spent lots of time in the darkroom with them developing a portfolio for college. The younger pro's like to come over anytime I'm printing, especially Lith, and I feel strongly about forming community with other film users. It's not difficult to bring others into the fold, and I frequently loan out cameras, everything from 35mm to large format. We need to share our knowledge with others, as often as we can.

 

[Helinophoto]

RPippin, indeed, it is people like yourself that keeps the ball rolling, good job =)
I was lucky enough to have a couple of darkroom classes in 1988-1989 in junior high and when I started doing some photography 4-5 years ago, I was quick to buy myself a analogue camera and see if I remembered anything from my school days. (I am now 37).

We just learned the basics; Getting the film onto the reel, how to develop a film, how to do proofs, how to print to paper and develop/fix that, a tiny bit of burn/dodge and that was it, very very basic. (the teacher didn't know a lot).

A little peek is usually enough to ignite a lasting interest in the subject, if the person really does have a passion for photography that is.
I promote analogue photography to all the people I know that does some kind of photography and I tell them that it's not that difficult, really, nor expensive.
- The challenge is control i suppose, but I don't want to scare people away from the get-go ;-)

Just seeing the expression on someones face when they pull some t-max 100 of a plastic reel for the first time, after souping and fixing it it in some TMax, at factory advised temperature and time, is priceless. =)

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

There are several good examples of companies picking up the old manufacturing assets and addressing the new, yes GROWING, markets for particularly black & white camera film.

o Rollei, see ADOX below
o ADOX Fotowerke GmbH (ADOX in Leverkusen): Adox bought the machinery from the old AGFA plant and hired some of AGFA Leverkusen's former employees.
o Fotikemika (Efke in Croatia)
o Foma Bohemia (Fomapan in the Czech Republic)
o Impossible Project (new Polaroid-type instant formulas in Enschede, Netherlands),
o New55 Project (new better-than Polaroid Type 55 instant, still in development)
o there are good film stocks coming out of Shanghai (probably based on some of the above classic formulations)

The trend defies mainstream logic; but of course mainstream thought has always struggled against a bias toward coherence.

The landscape is changing, but film will not be going away in <em>this</em> generation.

I hope you are right, and have a feeling there will always be a niche market for it.

But:

1. Where do you get the data and market trend that film is growing among still shooters?

2. What does that do to darkroom printing? Are all of these new film shooters mainly scanning for digital output?

3. Efke and Foma have both been around since the hills of Alabama were formed. They are hardly a new addition to the film market. And, what makes you think that they, along with Shanghai, Era, and Lucky would be any better at downsizing than the rest?

I don't wish to spoil your enthusiasm, but I felt it sounded more like opinion than fact.

- Thomas

1.

 

[vpwphoto]

Adox and Ilford will be around.... others small companies may come and go.
CNC machines and automated welding haven't killed the classic car hobby, in some way it has helped it.
SMALL scale manufacturing of almost anything imaginable is economically "easy" compared to 30 years ago.
Distribution is easy.
I have faith I will be able to buy 120, 35mm, and even 5x7 black and white films and papers until I croak or my son croaks. Color?? T-Max... I might not be so sure.

 

[SkipA]

... and Fuji is doing OK without US-gov or motion picture business ...

Fuji is big in motion picture film.

 

[SkipA]

Yes, there is already a thread on this.

I've been away for a few weeks. Can you point me to the other thread? Thanks.

 

[ajmiller]

Buy film, make pictures and promote it!

 

[Mackinaw]

.......Where do you get the data and market trend that film is growing among still shooters?........

Steven Brierley, of Ilford, reports that Ilford's B&W sales have increased 8% over last year and that medium format sales (120) have seen a substantial increase over last year too (probably due to the Lomo crowd).

Here's an interview with Brierley on the British podcast "Film Wasters." Well worth the listen (though it is long).

http://www.filmwasters.com/

Jim B.

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

Steven Brierley, of Ilford, reports that Ilford's B&W sales have increased 8% over last year and that medium format sales (120) have seen a substantial increase over last year too (probably due to the Lomo crowd).

Here's an interview with Brierley on the British podcast "Film Wasters." Well worth the listen (though it is long).

http://www.filmwasters.com/

Jim B.

Thanks for providing the link and substantiating some of the claim.

Is that true for all manufacturers? Or just for Ilford?

- Thomas

 

[cmacd123]

Fuji is big in motion picture film.

yes, they are Very competitive for print stock.

The thing in the original article that I find as a worry is the real push to convert all theatres in the US to digital projection. one theatre screen, with the movie changed every two or three weeks will use as much (of the cheapest possible kind) of film in a year as any of us can possibly use over any tenth of time (9,000 or more feet of 35mm for each new movie per theatre.) which has been suporting both Kodak and Fuji film making infrastructure.

The article mentions that the movie industry was 5% of Kodak's film business in the mid 20th century, but is 95% now, with the same actual volume of film. Digital projection will cut the demand for print stock. Presumably Bollywood will convert more slowly?

 

[georg16nik]

The CreativeCOW folks have a better written articles, like this one:
The Library of Congress Unlocks The Ultimate Archive System
http://magazine.creativecow.net/article/the-library-of-congress-unlocks-the-ultimate-archive-system
Back to the OP linked article, You have to download the "Printer Friendly" edition and read the article from that .pdf file in order to understand what they are trying to say..
http://magazine.creativecow.net/issue/film-fading-to-black
The article is formatted in white text on black background, like the editor wanted to put accent on the "death" theme..
Along the article there are huge Ads, of course, proudly promoting digital..
There is no doubt that CreativeCOW wrote that article to infuse, that they are traitors in respect to film.
Somewhere along the comments on the web version of the article, the Publisher, CEO Creative COW gets active in trying to defend themselves by "Where on Earth did we say that film is DEAD?"

His signature reads "Publisher, Creative COW Magazine, A 2011 FOLIO: 40 honoree as one of the 40 most influential publishers in America"

Folks, We need PE/Ron Mowrey as one of the 40 most influential publishers in America

 

[polyglot]

Fuji is big in motion picture film.

Bugger. I thought that was mostly a Kodak vulnerability.

Of course I have no idea what will happen within Fuji when that part of the business drops off and whether they will continue to make Acros, Velvia, etc. However, I still think (and this is completely supposition on my part) that the demise of one major (Kodak or Fuji) will significantly boost the throughput and therefore profitability of the others' film division. I can hope that a small manufacturer will license C41 and/or E6 film recipes and continue where a major leaves off but that's assuming a lot more broadmindedness of senior management than I give most of them credit for.

 

[MDR]

Don't worry about Fuji unlike Kodak they are not a stand alone company but owned by a larger business entity (Mitsui Group), Fuji might die as a Film company but not as a manufacturer of quality goods. Btw. Filmotec in Wolfen produces both MP and Stillfilms so does Tasma in Russia (according to some their B&W MP Stock is good to great http://www.tasma.ru/) Unfortunately neither Filmotec nor Tasma produce Colorfilm. Aside from Kodak only Agfa-Gevaert, Fuji, Ferrania ?, and Lucky currently produce color film. If Kodak (in a 1000 years "personal wish") dies one of them might pick up the color business and MP business.

Dominik

 

[Steve Smith]

Digital projection will cut the demand for print stock. Presumably Bollywood will convert more slowly?

And Europe I think. Whilst US cinemas seem to be owned by big corporations, cinemas here are more likely to be owned privately or by smaller companies who would not want to spend many thousands on a digital projector which might be obsolete in a few years when the projector they already have works perfectly well.


Steve.

 

[AgX]

I've been away for a few weeks. Can you point me to the other thread? Thanks.

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

 

[MDR]

Dear Steve Europe is the fastest to convert to digital Norway is pretty much 100% digital ,Germany is getting there rather fast thanks to massive state founding so is Austria again thanks to massive State founding. Most cinema screens in Europe are owned by larger Groups e.g. Constantin Film, Village Cinema, UCI, etc... The travelling cinemas in India might be the last place to see projected film instead of digital the fixed screens in India are converting to digital at a fast rate. The biggest hope for film are the traveling cinemas and archives two rather old fashioned organisations (thank god).

Dominik

 

[Steve Smith]

Just the UK then!


Steve.

 

[MDR]

Steve here's a links to a list showing digital screens (cinemas to avoid) in the UK http://www.yourlocalcinema.com/ukfc.arts.alliance.list.html

Dominik

 

[Tom Kershaw]

The Picturehouse cinema chain has taken to digital for new releases, although the local Cinema City Norwich (Picturehouse / City Screen) maintains film projections for archives and non new releases. The digital projection quality is surprisingly variable considering the (D-cinema) projectors are similar as far as I know. wide ratio anamorphic 35mm prints can give much higher resolution than current mainstream digital projection. I've also noticed occasional issues with lack of contrast and more frequently colour quality and depth; but these can be a problem with some film prints as well.

Nevertheless, there still seems to be an attitude that 'digital must be best'...

Tom

 

[jrhilton]

wide ratio anamorphic 35mm prints can give much higher resolution than current mainstream digital projection.

I think the key word is can, but not in the way the industry works today. Final editing most commonly takes place on a computer at 2k or 4k resolution. After editing most films are still written to 35mm digital intermediates at 2k not 4k to save money and time, and depending on the film writer that may be 2k/4k across the full with of the film and not just the frame part. The print you see in the cinema can be several generations away from the digital internegative or digital interpositive+subsequent internegatives used during duplication following editing too. Because of the way things work today few films have release prints with a resolution getting anywhere close to 4k and for many they only just get close to 2k.

Having said that I still like to get my old 16mm and S8 projectors out and look at some of the old reels I have.

 

[SkipA]

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Thank you AgX.

 

[cmacd123]

The Oracle has made another pronouncement...
http://motion.kodak.com/motion/About/The_Storyboard/4294969168/index.htm

this is an article by Kimberly Snyder, President
Kodak’s Entertainment Imaging Division

She says that they have More Film in the pipeline.. and all is well, and they have a lot of science to keep the movies on course... Mind you about 4 of the five things she talks about have nothing to do with analog Photography..

she even links to a list http://motion.kodak.com/motion/Products/Customer_Testimonials/Customers/index.htm of movies which are using Kodak film.