more about the future of film?

Helinophoto

Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2011
Messages
1,088
Location
Norway
Format
Multi Format
I think that the photographic community needs to promote film more in the younger segments.

I know a lot of young and up and coming photographers that are fascinated with the subject, but knowledge and teaching is scarce (except from when you are on the Internet).
The only thing that can keep things going, is that it exist a marked for the companies supplying film and analogue material, thus, stuff like lomography can only benefit the situation.

I am pretty sure that if you'd shown a 18 year old the process on _how_ to make a photo, from pressing the shutter at a location, to a finished print (from a scan or a wet-print), that person would be fascinated and interested to learn more and shoot analogue himself/herself.

The problem is, perhaps, that there are very few younger people being thought this these days, so the knowledge and the marked keeps getting smaller.

Maybe have a mantra "teach one youngster per year on how to shoot, develop and print using film" would be an idea?
 
Last edited by a moderator:

lxdude

Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2009
Messages
7,094
Location
Redlands, So
Format
Multi Format

benjiboy

Subscriber
Joined
Apr 18, 2005
Messages
11,970
Location
U.K.
Format
35mm
I don't own a digital camera and the only time I might consider buying one is if and when there is no more film, by which time I'll probably too old to get my head round the technology, hell I don't fully understand the wonders of film photography yet and I've been shooting for more than fifty years.
 

RPippin

Subscriber
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
286
Location
Staunton VA
Format
Multi Format
For Helinphoto, I've gone to the local high school where photography is taught, and they still have a working darkroom, and volunteered my time to work with the students. I've taken on a couple a year for internships, and spent lots of time in the darkroom with them developing a portfolio for college. The younger pro's like to come over anytime I'm printing, especially Lith, and I feel strongly about forming community with other film users. It's not difficult to bring others into the fold, and I frequently loan out cameras, everything from 35mm to large format. We need to share our knowledge with others, as often as we can.
 

Helinophoto

Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2011
Messages
1,088
Location
Norway
Format
Multi Format
RPippin, indeed, it is people like yourself that keeps the ball rolling, good job =)
I was lucky enough to have a couple of darkroom classes in 1988-1989 in junior high and when I started doing some photography 4-5 years ago, I was quick to buy myself a analogue camera and see if I remembered anything from my school days. (I am now 37).

We just learned the basics; Getting the film onto the reel, how to develop a film, how to do proofs, how to print to paper and develop/fix that, a tiny bit of burn/dodge and that was it, very very basic. (the teacher didn't know a lot).

A little peek is usually enough to ignite a lasting interest in the subject, if the person really does have a passion for photography that is.
I promote analogue photography to all the people I know that does some kind of photography and I tell them that it's not that difficult, really, nor expensive.
- The challenge is control i suppose, but I don't want to scare people away from the get-go ;-)

Just seeing the expression on someones face when they pull some t-max 100 of a plastic reel for the first time, after souping and fixing it it in some TMax, at factory advised temperature and time, is priceless. =)
 

Thomas Bertilsson

Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2003
Messages
15,708
Location
Switzerland
Format
Multi Format

I hope you are right, and have a feeling there will always be a niche market for it.

But:

1. Where do you get the data and market trend that film is growing among still shooters?

2. What does that do to darkroom printing? Are all of these new film shooters mainly scanning for digital output?

3. Efke and Foma have both been around since the hills of Alabama were formed. They are hardly a new addition to the film market. And, what makes you think that they, along with Shanghai, Era, and Lucky would be any better at downsizing than the rest?

I don't wish to spoil your enthusiasm, but I felt it sounded more like opinion than fact.

- Thomas

1.
 

vpwphoto

Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2011
Messages
1,202
Location
Indiana
Format
Multi Format
Adox and Ilford will be around.... others small companies may come and go.
CNC machines and automated welding haven't killed the classic car hobby, in some way it has helped it.
SMALL scale manufacturing of almost anything imaginable is economically "easy" compared to 30 years ago.
Distribution is easy.
I have faith I will be able to buy 120, 35mm, and even 5x7 black and white films and papers until I croak or my son croaks. Color?? T-Max... I might not be so sure.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Mackinaw

Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
Messages
705
Location
One hour sou
Format
Multi Format
Thomas Bertilsson said:
.......Where do you get the data and market trend that film is growing among still shooters?........
Click to expand...

Steven Brierley, of Ilford, reports that Ilford's B&W sales have increased 8% over last year and that medium format sales (120) have seen a substantial increase over last year too (probably due to the Lomo crowd).

Here's an interview with Brierley on the British podcast "Film Wasters." Well worth the listen (though it is long).

http://www.filmwasters.com/

Jim B.
 

Thomas Bertilsson

Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2003
Messages
15,708
Location
Switzerland
Format
Multi Format

Thanks for providing the link and substantiating some of the claim.

Is that true for all manufacturers? Or just for Ilford?

- Thomas
 

cmacd123

Subscriber
Joined
May 24, 2007
Messages
4,312
Location
Stittsville, Ontario
Format
35mm
SkipA said:
Fuji is big in motion picture film.
Click to expand...

yes, they are Very competitive for print stock.

The thing in the original article that I find as a worry is the real push to convert all theatres in the US to digital projection. one theatre screen, with the movie changed every two or three weeks will use as much (of the cheapest possible kind) of film in a year as any of us can possibly use over any tenth of time (9,000 or more feet of 35mm for each new movie per theatre.) which has been suporting both Kodak and Fuji film making infrastructure.

The article mentions that the movie industry was 5% of Kodak's film business in the mid 20th century, but is 95% now, with the same actual volume of film. Digital projection will cut the demand for print stock. Presumably Bollywood will convert more slowly?
 

georg16nik

Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2010
Messages
1,101
Format
Multi Format
The CreativeCOW folks have a better written articles, like this one:
The Library of Congress Unlocks The Ultimate Archive System
http://magazine.creativecow.net/article/the-library-of-congress-unlocks-the-ultimate-archive-system
Back to the OP linked article, You have to download the "Printer Friendly" edition and read the article from that .pdf file in order to understand what they are trying to say..
http://magazine.creativecow.net/issue/film-fading-to-black
The article is formatted in white text on black background, like the editor wanted to put accent on the "death" theme..
Along the article there are huge Ads, of course, proudly promoting digital..
There is no doubt that CreativeCOW wrote that article to infuse, that they are traitors in respect to film.
Somewhere along the comments on the web version of the article, the Publisher, CEO Creative COW gets active in trying to defend themselves by "Where on Earth did we say that film is DEAD?"

His signature reads "Publisher, Creative COW Magazine, A 2011 FOLIO: 40 honoree as one of the 40 most influential publishers in America"

Folks, We need PE/Ron Mowrey as one of the 40 most influential publishers in America
 

polyglot

Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2009
Messages
3,467
Location
South Australia
Format
Medium Format
SkipA said:
Fuji is big in motion picture film.
Click to expand...

Bugger. I thought that was mostly a Kodak vulnerability.

Of course I have no idea what will happen within Fuji when that part of the business drops off and whether they will continue to make Acros, Velvia, etc. However, I still think (and this is completely supposition on my part) that the demise of one major (Kodak or Fuji) will significantly boost the throughput and therefore profitability of the others' film division. I can hope that a small manufacturer will license C41 and/or E6 film recipes and continue where a major leaves off but that's assuming a lot more broadmindedness of senior management than I give most of them credit for.
 

MDR

Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2006
Messages
1,402
Location
Austria
Format
Multi Format
Don't worry about Fuji unlike Kodak they are not a stand alone company but owned by a larger business entity (Mitsui Group), Fuji might die as a Film company but not as a manufacturer of quality goods. Btw. Filmotec in Wolfen produces both MP and Stillfilms so does Tasma in Russia (according to some their B&W MP Stock is good to great http://www.tasma.ru/) Unfortunately neither Filmotec nor Tasma produce Colorfilm. Aside from Kodak only Agfa-Gevaert, Fuji, Ferrania ?, and Lucky currently produce color film. If Kodak (in a 1000 years "personal wish") dies one of them might pick up the color business and MP business.

Dominik
 

Steve Smith

Member
Joined
May 3, 2006
Messages
9,109
Location
Ryde, Isle o
Format
Medium Format
cmacd123 said:
Digital projection will cut the demand for print stock. Presumably Bollywood will convert more slowly?
Click to expand...

And Europe I think. Whilst US cinemas seem to be owned by big corporations, cinemas here are more likely to be owned privately or by smaller companies who would not want to spend many thousands on a digital projector which might be obsolete in a few years when the projector they already have works perfectly well.


Steve.
 

MDR

Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2006
Messages
1,402
Location
Austria
Format
Multi Format
Dear Steve Europe is the fastest to convert to digital Norway is pretty much 100% digital ,Germany is getting there rather fast thanks to massive state founding so is Austria again thanks to massive State founding. Most cinema screens in Europe are owned by larger Groups e.g. Constantin Film, Village Cinema, UCI, etc... The travelling cinemas in India might be the last place to see projected film instead of digital the fixed screens in India are converting to digital at a fast rate. The biggest hope for film are the traveling cinemas and archives two rather old fashioned organisations (thank god).

Dominik
 

Steve Smith

Member
Joined
May 3, 2006
Messages
9,109
Location
Ryde, Isle o
Format
Medium Format
Just the UK then!


Steve.
 

Tom Kershaw

Subscriber
Joined
Jun 5, 2004
Messages
4,974
Location
Norfolk, United Kingdom
Format
Multi Format
The Picturehouse cinema chain has taken to digital for new releases, although the local Cinema City Norwich (Picturehouse / City Screen) maintains film projections for archives and non new releases. The digital projection quality is surprisingly variable considering the (D-cinema) projectors are similar as far as I know. wide ratio anamorphic 35mm prints can give much higher resolution than current mainstream digital projection. I've also noticed occasional issues with lack of contrast and more frequently colour quality and depth; but these can be a problem with some film prints as well.

Nevertheless, there still seems to be an attitude that 'digital must be best'...

Tom
 
Last edited by a moderator:

jrhilton

Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2007
Messages
82
Format
Medium Format
Tom Kershaw said:
wide ratio anamorphic 35mm prints can give much higher resolution than current mainstream digital projection.
Click to expand...

I think the key word is can, but not in the way the industry works today. Final editing most commonly takes place on a computer at 2k or 4k resolution. After editing most films are still written to 35mm digital intermediates at 2k not 4k to save money and time, and depending on the film writer that may be 2k/4k across the full with of the film and not just the frame part. The print you see in the cinema can be several generations away from the digital internegative or digital interpositive+subsequent internegatives used during duplication following editing too. Because of the way things work today few films have release prints with a resolution getting anywhere close to 4k and for many they only just get close to 2k.

Having said that I still like to get my old 16mm and S8 projectors out and look at some of the old reels I have.
 

cmacd123

Subscriber
Joined
May 24, 2007
Messages
4,312
Location
Stittsville, Ontario
Format
35mm
The Oracle has made another pronouncement...
http://motion.kodak.com/motion/About/The_Storyboard/4294969168/index.htm

this is an article by Kimberly Snyder, President
Kodak’s Entertainment Imaging Division

She says that they have More Film in the pipeline.. and all is well, and they have a lot of science to keep the movies on course... Mind you about 4 of the five things she talks about have nothing to do with analog Photography..

she even links to a list http://motion.kodak.com/motion/Products/Customer_Testimonials/Customers/index.htm of movies which are using Kodak film.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Menu
Log in
Register
Cookies are required to use this site. You must accept them to continue using the site. Learn more…