"Modern" Fidelity Elite holders, (a look at personal bias and whether there is truth in it)

[Michael Mutmansky]

Folks,

I have to buy some new film holders for 4x5 shooting since I sold off my holders 15 years ago or so... because now I want to shoot some 4x5 and QL film is long gone (so sad for that. I didn't like the waste, but I loved the perfectly dust-free never ending film supply when in the field).

Anyway, I used to have a bag full of Fidelity Elite holders. The ones with the matte/satin finish on the dark slides, which I think were the last version of those holders. Over the years, I'd used (possibly) all of the modern and historical holders made other than Linhof probably and that includes 8x10 and ULF holders made by Lotus, S&S, Philips, etc., but I'd not used any of the holders coming out of Chinese factories. On every wooden holder I owned, I had taken off the registration plates and repaired/improved the light traps in there because they all were prone to leakage if you weren't careful. Few, if any of them had blackened interiors from the factory (I think the Lotus holders did sometimes), and the felt spring traps were often a bit weak...

For 4x5 shooting, I had a strong preference for the Fidelity Elite holders with that matte/satin dark slide. I don't know if it is true, but I felt they were less prone to cracking and they felt like they were also less prone to gathering static and dust. Every once in a while, I'd wipe them down and then use a silicone lubricant on them and they'd smoothly slide in and out without fuss and they basically worked perfectly all the time.

Thankfully, I never had light trap problems with the 4x5 or 8x10 Fidelity holders, because there was nothing to do if they started having that issue except to throw them out and/or use them for parts, or be extremely careful how much light exposure they got outside of a wrap or pouch.

OK, so that's a long-winded way of saying that I'm biased towards the satin darkslide Fidelity holders... Is this a reasonable perspective to continue holding onto or do all of the Fidelity Elite holders effectively work as well and I shouldn't fret only buying the matte-satin darkslide version?

Your opinions based on experience are appreciated...

---Michael

 

[Vaidotas]

If you like them with built up confidence - use them.
I have same confidence with Toyo 4x5 holders.
They are king to me and Fidelity (no satin though) collect dust.

 

[Peter Schrager]

PM sent

 

[Vaughn]

Just looked through 15 or so of my 4x5 holders...only a couple Fidelity Elite -- but they are the nicer ones I have...most are slightly older with the metal pulls on the darkslides. The Elites seem to be a good choice to look for.

About half of my 5x7 holders have metal pulls on the darkslide and glossy slides, and half with plastic pulls and satin slides. I'll happily load all of them up, but will lean towards using the newer holders with plastic pulls/satin slides...which are Fidelity Deluxe and Lisco Regal II (both made by Fidelity Mfg Co.)

I bought four NOS Kodak wood 8x10 holders a couple decades ago. I do love them, but they can be a slight pain to load as the sharp corners of the film tend to dig into the wood if not lined up perfectly square the whole way down. Life is tough.

My 11x14 medical x-ray film holders give me plenty of arm-strength exercise. Some of those have metal darkslides...sold as "Unbreakable". A few of my 8x10s also have metal darkslides...it can be nice having that extra protection in the field...but at the addition of weight.

I have modified metal 8x10 and 11x14 darkslides to get two 4x10 images on a sheet of 8x10 film -- or two 5.5x14 images on 11x14. I found plastic ones tend to break, but the metal ones bend and can be hammered flat again.

 

[Nitroplait]

Toyo is closing their business, but you can still get new holders - at least last I looked a few month ago. If as concerned as you, I would get them while still possible. They are excellent.

I use newer and older Fidelity Elite, newer comes across more confidence inspiring but none have caused me any trouble in any regard so far.

 

[AERO]

If you like them with built up confidence - use them.
I have same confidence with Toyo 4x5 holders.
They are king to me and Fidelity (no satin though) collect dust.

Use anti static spray when giving them a clean from time to time...spray..leave to dry.....?

 

[Vieri Bottazzini]

Hey Michael,

I have a lot of Fidelity, but use and love the Chamonix 4x" holders - they have an "automatic" catch that IMHO is much better than the classic wire, are well made, and the carbon fibre dark slide works great. No connection with Chamonix of course besides being a very happy user.

Best regards,

Vieri

 

[BradS]

The Fidelity Elite and Lisco Regal II are almost identical - the differences are only cosmetic.

I don't like the matte/satin dark slides- I've had too many become deformed, presumably in hot weather - which is quite common here in the summer months. Once deformed, they're difficult to slide back in and sometimes difficult to pull. It's more of a loss-of-confidence failure however, since the darkslides are still opaque and get the job done of course. The shiny plastic darkslides do not melt but they can crack / chip.

I long ago decided to exclusively use the (old?) plastic Riteway film holders with metal pulls on the stiff, shiny plastic darkslides. I have more than fifty..."just in case".

 

[abruzzi]

About half of my 5x7 holders have metal pulls on the darkslide and glossy slides, and half with plastic pulls and satin slides. I'll happily load all of them up, but will lean towards using the newer holders with plastic pulls/satin slides...which are Fidelity Deluxe and Lisco Regal II (both made by Fidelity Mfg Co.)

I have some new-ish 5x7 with the plastic handle on the dark slides and like them, but I have 4 Kodak stained wood and 8 Kodak/Graphic black painted wood holder that I like a lot. One odd detail is they are shorter than the plastic models by almost an inch which makes them more compact. The area for film is the same, its just the area past the light trap ridge is shorter on the Kodak holders. They are also the easiest holder I have to load. The metal lips that hold the film in place are slightly flared making it easier to get the film under the lip and by feel the metal vs wood also makes it easier to tell by feel that the sheet is where it should be.

I'd love to try a similar holder for 8x10. My 8x10 are all new plastic handled and are much harder to load (mostly due to the impact of size of 8x10) so I'd love if there is an equivalent Kodax 8x10 holder.

 

[Vaughn]

...

I long ago decided to exclusively use the (old?) plastic Riteway film holders with metal pulls on the stiff, shiny plastic darkslides. I have more than fifty..."just in case".

I have about 30 8x10 holders -- on road trips I load them all up so I do not have to re-load during the week or two. If I run out, I have all the 5x7 and 11x14 holders loaded, too...just not as many as the 8x10. My 4x5 holders...the poor things do not see a lot of use...but I am going between the ideas of 4x5 or 5x7 in Japan at the end of the year.

 

[Michael Mutmansky]

Hey Michael,

I have a lot of Fidelity, but use and love the Chamonix 4x" holders - they have an "automatic" catch that IMHO is much better than the classic wire, are well made, and the carbon fibre dark slide works great. No connection with Chamonix of course besides being a very happy user.

Best regards,

Vieri

I saw that Chamonix now has those plastic holders... Fidelity made a similar version at one time, but I've not used those. They were called "Astra", and I've seen them with a different darkslide handle than the normal Elite or Deluxe holders. Riteway did too. Not sure what they were called.

One thing I like about those is the DS handle is substantial, but I could see that also meaning they are a bit bulkier and the handles could be prone to damage? Not sure about those.

I've seen people complain that the locks are "fiddly" on them, and I can understand that because you can't just go through a stack and unlock them all before putting them in the film changing bag. You essentially have to unlock each side at the moment you pull the DS, so it involves a second hand on the handle end when you really want the second hand at the opposite end to flip out the bottom piece to extract the film.

Has anyone seen any issues with light leakage where that button penetration is from those auto-locking holders?

Something about the locking tab seems appealing to me when shooting in the field.

 

[DREW WILEY]

The later satin darkslides of Fidelity and Lisco holders are more flexible and resistant to breakage than the older shiny ones. They also slip in and out easier.

My experience with these is therefore different than Brad's; but I kept all my gear here on the Coast where the climate is cooler. I did have property up in the hills well to the south of Brad's area, where it also got terribly hot in summer; but in those hot months, I'd arrive at night, and get before dawn and head to the high country for backpacking. I never stored photo gear there.

I never liked the expensive Hoffman aluminum holders and slides because they're more susceptible to condensation on the film during cold damp weather. And in really cold weather, bare skin will stick to anything metal, whether a metal tripod or darkslide; and it can be clumsy handling your gear in mittens.

Plastic slides and holders should be treated with antistatic spray-wipe.

When buying older plastic holders, you want to make sure someone hasn't stored them under hot sun or a heavy load, and warped them. Old wooden holders have their own issues requiring inspection.

 

[Oldwino]

Plastic slides and holders should be treated with antistatic spray-wipe.

What sort of anti-static spray are you talking about here?

 

[Vieri Bottazzini]

I saw that Chamonix now has those plastic holders... Fidelity made a similar version at one time, but I've not used those. They were called "Astra", and I've seen them with a different darkslide handle than the normal Elite or Deluxe holders. Riteway did too. Not sure what they were called.

One thing I like about those is the DS handle is substantial, but I could see that also meaning they are a bit bulkier and the handles could be prone to damage? Not sure about those.

I've seen people complain that the locks are "fiddly" on them, and I can understand that because you can't just go through a stack and unlock them all before putting them in the film changing bag. You essentially have to unlock each side at the moment you pull the DS, so it involves a second hand on the handle end when you really want the second hand at the opposite end to flip out the bottom piece to extract the film.

Has anyone seen any issues with light leakage where that button penetration is from those auto-locking holders?

Something about the locking tab seems appealing to me when shooting in the field.

Hey Michael,

the appeal of the lock is that you never risk the wire to open while holders are in the bag / in hand / anywhere. They just open (automatically) when the holder is inserted in the camera: once the holder is inserted in the camera, you just need to pull out the DS, shoot and slide it back in, without worrying about locking it.

In exchange for that - and for that very safety reason, I assume - you need two hands to open the DS: one to hold the holder and push the button, the other to pull the DS out. My workflow is, I do so with all holders; once they are all open with DS out, I flip the bottom and extract or load the film.

Basically, it adds just one quick step compared to the wire models; but, you gain a lot of safety and practicality in the field in exchange.

I shot about a thousand sheets of 4x5" spread over 12 different Chamonix holders and never had a light leak, neither where the lock button is nor anywhere else.

Hope this helps, best regards

Vieri

 

[Michael Mutmansky]

Hey Michael,

the appeal of the lock is that you never risk the wire to open while holders are in the bag / in hand / anywhere. They just open (automatically) when the holder is inserted in the camera: once the holder is inserted in the camera, you just need to pull out the DS, shoot and slide it back in, without worrying about locking it.

In exchange for that - and for that very safety reason, I assume - you need two hands to open the DS: one to hold the holder and push the button, the other to pull the DS out. My workflow is, I do so with all holders; once they are all open with DS out, I flip the bottom and extract or load the film.

Basically, it adds just one quick step compared to the wire models; but, you gain a lot of safety and practicality in the field in exchange.

I shot about a thousand sheets of 4x5" spread over 12 different Chamonix holders and never had a light leak, neither where the lock button is nor anywhere else.

Hope this helps, best regards

Vieri

Thanks for the input. I absolutely used the DS locks all the time on my Fidelity holders so the auto lock feels beneficial to me.

 

[BradS]

I have about 30 8x10 holders -- on road trips I load them all up so I do not have to re-load during the week or two. If I run out, I have all the 5x7 and 11x14 holders loaded, too...just not as many as the 8x10. My 4x5 holders...the poor things do not see a lot of use...but I am going between the ideas of 4x5 or 5x7 in Japan at the end of the year.

I wanted to have enough film holders to swallow an entire box of film - even if its a 100 sheet box. Such a luxury!

 

[Chuck1]

What sort of anti-static spray are you talking about here?

I've never heard of anti static spray, I want some, any info would be appreciated.
I'm also partial to riteway.
Toyos are great too

 

[Vieri Bottazzini]

Thanks for the input. I absolutely used the DS locks all the time on my Fidelity holders so the auto lock feels beneficial to me.

You are very welcome, happy to help. Best regards,

Vieri

 

[DREW WILEY]

Hi Oldwino, Chuck - a pro antistatic spray like one can get from a cleanroom or industrial supplier. Mine came from McMaster Carr in LA, and the bottle has lasted over 20 yrs. It doesn't wear out. (Not the kind of antistatic cleaner like Brillianize used on Plexiglas, or like you find in a home center). Just needs a thin layer. Mine is water-based and in a finger-pump style bottle (not aerosol can). Just go to the McMaster site and they give all the specs. Grainger probably has something similar too.

 

[Doremus Scudder]

I have about 70 4x5 holders; Riteway, Fidelity, Fidelity Elite, old wooden Graphic holders, etc., etc. They all work just fine (I do like the feel of the old wooden holders, though, and they're a tiny bit smaller). I do not own any of the newer holders with darkslide locks; I hate those; just another step loading and unloading that I don't need. I haven't inadvertently pulled a darkslide in years. The ZipLoc bags I keep the holders in prevent the darkslides from coming out during transit and storage anyway.

Best,

Doremus

 

[Vieri Bottazzini]

I have about 70 4x5 holders; Riteway, Fidelity, Fidelity Elite, old wooden Graphic holders, etc., etc. They all work just fine (I do like the feel of the old wooden holders, though, and they're a tiny bit smaller). I do not own any of the newer holders with darkslide locks; I hate those; just another step loading and unloading that I don't need. I haven't inadvertently pulled a darkslide in years. The ZipLoc bags I keep the holders in prevent the darkslides from coming out during transit and storage anyway.

Best,

Doremus

Doremus,

just curious, do you use one ziplock bag for each holder, in the field?

Best,

Vieri

 

[Doremus Scudder]

Ciao Vieri,

I use 1 quart / 1 liter ZipLoc style freezer bags (I used Toppits 1 liter bags when in Europe - can you get those?). A 4x5 holder fits perfectly inside each bag. Yes, every holder has its own bag. They go into my film-holder carrying case in the field. I take the holder out just before the exposure and put the holder back in the bag after the exposure. No dust that way

Hope this helps,

Doremus

 

[DREW WILEY]

One can optionally get anti-static pinkish Zip Loc bags if they wish from places like U-line.

 

[Vieri Bottazzini]

Ciao Vieri,

I use 1 quart / 1 liter ZipLoc style freezer bags (I used Toppits 1 liter bags when in Europe - can you get those?). A 4x5 holder fits perfectly inside each bag. Yes, every holder has its own bag. They go into my film-holder carrying case in the field. I take the holder out just before the exposure and put the holder back in the bag after the exposure. No dust that way

Hope this helps,

Doremus

Ciao!

Thank you for sharing your process, it's always great to see what other people do and it's interesting how we all have different preferences when it comes to gear - it seems to me that we all favour what we use and are comfortable with, out of habit and familiarity, which makes perfect sense.

For instance, I personally would never go through the process of removing holders from the bag, then unzip the ziplock, then pull them from the ziplock, then open the metal wires, remove dark slide, unload / load, put dark slide back, lock the metal wire, put the holders back in the ziplock, zip the ziplock and put it back in the bag when at home, and I would be even less keen on having to go through the whole ziplock routine in the field, where I have to fiddle with what feels like enough bits and pieces already

To me, when at home the simplicity of removing holders from the bag, pushing the lock while pulling the slide, unload / load, put the slide back, put the holders in the bag, done - and, most importantly, when in the field the convenience of just having to pull the holders from my f64 bag (hanging from my neck), inserting the holder in the camera, pull the dark slide, take the shot, put the dark slide back, remove the holder and put it back in the bag without any extra steps is a lifesaver.

Unless I am missing something, to me the button lock holders feel much simpler, and it seems to me that the number of steps involved in the workflow is much lower with those - since I got the Chamonix, I sold half of my Fidelity and the other half rest easy in a drawer and never saw the light of day again. That said, as I said at the beginning, with gear - pretty much always - what counts and what makes us the most productive is what we are used to, and feel comfortable with.

Best,

Vieri

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Folks,

I have to buy some new film holders for 4x5 shooting since I sold off my holders 15 years ago or so... because now I want to shoot some 4x5 and QL film is long gone (so sad for that. I didn't like the waste, but I loved the perfectly dust-free never ending film supply when in the field).

Anyway, I used to have a bag full of Fidelity Elite holders. The ones with the matte/satin finish on the dark slides, which I think were the last version of those holders. Over the years, I'd used (possibly) all of the modern and historical holders made other than Linhof probably and that includes 8x10 and ULF holders made by Lotus, S&S, Philips, etc., but I'd not used any of the holders coming out of Chinese factories. On every wooden holder I owned, I had taken off the registration plates and repaired/improved the light traps in there because they all were prone to leakage if you weren't careful. Few, if any of them had blackened interiors from the factory (I think the Lotus holders did sometimes), and the felt spring traps were often a bit weak...

For 4x5 shooting, I had a strong preference for the Fidelity Elite holders with that matte/satin dark slide. I don't know if it is true, but I felt they were less prone to cracking and they felt like they were also less prone to gathering static and dust. Every once in a while, I'd wipe them down and then use a silicone lubricant on them and they'd smoothly slide in and out without fuss and they basically worked perfectly all the time.

Thankfully, I never had light trap problems with the 4x5 or 8x10 Fidelity holders, because there was nothing to do if they started having that issue except to throw them out and/or use them for parts, or be extremely careful how much light exposure they got outside of a wrap or pouch.

OK, so that's a long-winded way of saying that I'm biased towards the satin darkslide Fidelity holders... Is this a reasonable perspective to continue holding onto or do all of the Fidelity Elite holders effectively work as well and I shouldn't fret only buying the matte-satin darkslide version?

Your opinions based on experience are appreciated...

---Michael

mabe extremely lucku but ,I never had any trouble with 2nd-hand holdersof any brand. the only issue I had with most was that people¬ikedto glue tape on them to mark them up. That was always aa PITA to remove them.