Mixing your own E6 / C41 chemistry?

[menglert]

Greetings,

Is it possible to mix your own E6 / C41 chemistry and get results similar to the kits?

I'm thinking it might be a better solution rather than buying the kits. Let me know your thoughts and experience.

Thanks,
Martin

 

[Nick Zentena]

There should be few threads on C-41.

Developer is the only one worth mixing yourself. Fixer and bleach just buy mini-lab size jugs. 1litre or bigger. Both keep fairly well.

 

[stefan4u]

High Martin !

It depends on your equipment, an accurate scale, a ph meter and a lot of patience is an essential condition. In my eyes DIY colour negative developer can be done, there is no witchcraft involved (but definitely lots of research and development).

Reversal processing / E6 is indeed a different challenge, the probability of errors increases exponentially. This will be an option for “special purpose“ only. I’ve done that for some aged films, but to be honest, it’s not worth the huge amount of time it took…

It will be difficult sometimes to get the raw chemicals for a reasonable price, but in the city where I live, it’s even difficult to get a “kit” without special order (and special price) in these times. For me this is a reason for home brewing...

Regards from Germany,
Stefan

 

[Ian Grant]

Over the years I've done it for E3, E6 & C41, the results are excellent but in reality I'd rather use a kit. I have all the chemicals but the parameters are far tighter than needed for B&W and unless you are making up large quantities quality can be variable.

For C41 & RA4 I just buy the Tetenal minilab packs it's cheap and simpler.

Ian

 

[Photo Engineer]

I've mixed all of the above and more from scratch and done experiments with them. I can say that scratch mixing all of the E6 chemistry is truly a big pain! The C41 isn't too bad, but isn't worth the trouble anyhow. The kits on the market are well worth the labor and expense of scratch mixing, but I would not recommend any C41 blix.

PE

 

[fotch]

........
It depends on your equipment, an accurate scale, a ph meter
Regards from Germany,...........
Stefan

Question, PH meters seem rather expensive ($85 at PF) how about PH strips or whatever they are called? Are the accurate enough? To hard to use?

Or, just bite the bullet and buy a PH Meter.:confused:

 

[nickandre]

I believe the main point of most of these threads is thus: It is possible to mix chemistry yourself, but you don't save any money in doing so. Buy the developer and replenisher which allows you to make up small quantities as needed (a liter) and replenish it until it oxidizes.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Question, PH meters seem rather expensive ($85 at PF) how about PH strips or whatever they are called? Are the accurate enough? To hard to use?

Or, just bite the bullet and buy a PH Meter.:confused:

pH strips are no where near accurate enough for color.

PE

 

[fotch]

I believe the main point of most of these threads is thus: It is possible to mix chemistry yourself, but you don't save any money in doing so. Buy the developer and replenisher which allows you to make up small quantities as needed (a liter) and replenish it until it oxidizes.

The problem is, as I see it, is its hard to find, you have to buy larger quanities, and if it goes bad, is way more expensive. There is another thread about One Hour Photofinishing going by the wayside however, I don't like the way they handle the film anyway.

The mail order labs I found are expensive, take time, and there is always the risk of it getting lost in the mail.

I have a Jobo and have done Color before (one shot) and its pretty easy. However, I think I used the kits with Blix (its been while) and to avoid this, which is what I want to do, you have to buy in larger quanities.

To bad, so sad, that the 1 Gal. kits or sizes are gone. Mixing from scratch may be the best, if not the only, solution, at least for myself.

 

[fotch]

pH strips are no where near accurate enough for color.

PE

Okay, thanks for the info. I keep reading about all this PH stuff and maybe I will at last get a handle of what is going on.

 

[nickandre]

The powders go bad. Bleach costs a lot but lasts forever and doesn't go bad. As long as you stockpile unprocessed films and mix up a liter of developer as needed, it's very cheap. Dead Link Removed is a HUGE amount of developer that will last me two years for $26 (you'll need the starter for $7 or so, small quantity mixing info available on kodaks website, google it). The fix is also dirt cheap and doesn't go bad. You have to use the color one for color films but it also works with B&W. The bleach is a little bit more difficult to find. There's only one site I've found that sells it, you can look for the bleach III discontinued thread. You're best off checking with a local minilab supply store or buying what's left of B&H's supply of the discontinued Bleach III (they don't ship, you have to go to NY city).

 

[menglert]

Thanks everyone for all of the input. It has been helpful...

It is my understand then, that all the small volume kits are no longer made my Kodak, correct?

What has replaced Bleach III?

Likely I will either order the Kodak chemistry in larger quantaties, or check a local mini-lab as suggested. I see on Adorama, they offer chemistry to make 5 gallons for most steps. I think I'll go that way, and order each chemical in the larger 5 gallon quantities.

Thanks,
Martin

 

[Trond]

I recently bought two Kodak E-6 5l kits, so they don't seem to be discontinued. The cost is very reasonably too.

 

[Heinz_Anderle]

As I am a chemist, I hope one day to be able to prepare my own reagents, if commercial processing becomes unaffordable and/or unreliable.

Temperature is no problem. A simple digital thermometer for the measurement of body temperature fits perfectly for 38 °C.

Mass (accurate weighing) requires an analytical balance for some components in the milligram range. At least for potassium iodide, stock solutions and graduated glass pipets may replace the balance.

pH requires a pH-meter. I do not now how accurate the simple pH meters for use in aquariums actually are. pH meters need to be calibrated with buffer solutions. Especially the pH of 12 for E-6 development must be kept very precisely. Furthermore, the reducing developer solutions may ruin the silver halide pH electrode very fast.

Special thanks to Stefan4u for his cumbersome work. Color processing isn't anything magic any more.

The greatest obstacle is the overwhelming number of patents. To find the appropriate formula seems like a needle in the haystack.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Color developer formulas

Here are several formulas taken from open source (provided you know where to look).

EKTACHROME E2/E3/E4/E6 (with tiny modifications - for example E6 contains no Benzyl Alcohol)

Water 70 - 80 F 1 Liter
Benzyl Alcohol 6.0 ml (stir until dissolved)
Sodium Hexametaphosphate 2.0 g
Sodium Sulfite (anh) 5.0 g
Trisodium Phosphate . 12H2O 40 g
Potassium Bromide 0.25 g
0.1% Potassium Iodide solution 10.0 ml
Sodium Hydroxide 6.5 g
CD-3 11.33 g
Ethylene Diamine Sulfate 7.8 g
Citrazinic Acid 1.5 g

C-22 (C-41 with slight modifications - for example, C-41 uses no Benzyl Alcohol and substitut(ed) Sodium Carbonate for Borate)

Water 70 - 80 F 700 ml
Benzyl Alcohol 5.0 ml
Sodium Hexametaphosphate 2.5 g
Sodium Sulfite 1.85 g
Sodium Bromide 1.40 g
Potassium Iodide 0.5 mg
Sodium Hydroxide 12.5 g
Sodium Tetraborate . 10H2O 44.9 g
Hydroxyl Amine Sulfate 2.0 g
CD-3 5.1 g
Water to 1 L adjust pH to 10.60

Ektaprint C Developer

Water 1000 ml
Benzyl Alcohol 12 ml
Antical #3 3.0 g
Sodium Sulfite 2.08 g
Kodalk 48 g
Sodium Chloride 0.70 g
Sodium Bromide 0.42 g
Hydroxyl Amine Sulfate 2.08 g
CD-3 4.17 g
Sodium Hydroxide 0.64 g
pH 10.1

Ektaprint 3 Deveolper

Water 800 ml
Antical #3 2.75 g
Sodium Sulfite 1.60 g
Sodium Bromide 0.29 g
Sodium Chloride 0.60 g
Benzyl Alcohol 13.5 ml
Hydroxyl Amine Sulfate 3.40 g
CD-3 4.3 g
Boric Acid 20.4 g/l
Potassium Hydroxide 20 g
Water to 1 L, pH 10.1

The Boric Acid KOH mix was later changed to Sodium Carbonate

Eastman Color Print

Water 800 ml
Sodium Sulfite 4.0 g
CD-2 3.0 g
Sodium Carbonate . H2O 20.0 g
Sodium Bromide 1.72 g
Water to 1 L, pH 10.75

Eastman Color Negative (ENF-2)

Water 800 ml
AAntical #4 2.0 ml
Sodium Sulfite 2.0 g
CD-3 4.0 g
Sodium Bromide 1.2 g
Potassium Iodide 1.0 mg
Sodium Carbonate 25.6 g
Sodium Bicarbonate 2.7 g
Water to 1 L, ph 10.20

There, y'all happy? Note the extreme accuracy of measurments down to the tenths of a milligram or to the milligram. I assure you that this is critical to image quality and cannot be done with measuring spoons. Same goes for pH!

Have fun.

PE

 

[Ashish Wakhlu]

Friends,

I got this as a result off Developing fuji velvia in 6 bath chemistry mixed from constituent salts, there was no cross-contamination and the solutions had been mixed only the previous night and stored in air evacuation concertina bottles poured using separate jugs with first developer separately opened and closed. I will appreciate any comments as to the possible processing error, online articles mention exhausted color developer and reversal bath which seems not to be the case here,

thanks and regards Ashish

 

[Photo Engineer]

Can you show a scan of the edges and edge markings?

 

[Ashish Wakhlu]

Can you show a scan of the edges and edge markings?

Hi, thanks for your help, the edges of the picture are uncropped and jet black

thanks

 

[Photo Engineer]

There are no edge markings visible. This marking is of help in diagnosing your problem.

If it can be diagnosed.

PE

 

[Rudeofus]

@Ashish Wakhlu : the reason Photo Engineer asked for edge markings is this: what you showed in posting #16 could come from incorrect development or from incorrect exposure. The only way to find out is through the edge markings: these were exposed by the film maker. If the edge markings look as expected, then your developer was good and exposure was bad. If the edge markings are messed up, then most likely incorrect development was the culprit.

Could you please also share, which E6 six bath formula you used? Or did you use a prepackaged E6 developer kit ?

 

[Vincent Peri]

...Bleach costs a lot but lasts forever and doesn't go bad....

Hmm... life's a bleach and
then you're dyed...

 

[thuggins]

How old was the film?

 

[Ashish Wakhlu]

Friends,
thank you very much for all your valuable inputs, sorry for the 8 hour hiatus (time zones) this is the complete slide, the edge markings seem to be OK, the film is fresh (exp 2020) I am making pictures of my formulae and will post them ASAP again will appreciate comments and criticism both ? regards Ashish

 

[Ashish Wakhlu]

The formulae are from Mr Derek Watkin's website.

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

Ashish, just curious where you got your CD3 from. Is there a supplier in India who sells colour developers?