Mixing your own E6 / C41 chemistry?

[Ashish Wakhlu]

I got the CD3 from Alibaba. best Ashish

 

[Rudeofus]

I see a pronounced density difference between film edge on the left hand side vs. right hand side. Is this an artifact of digitization, or does the real slide film strip look like that ?

 

[Ashish Wakhlu]

The real strip looks like that, thanks Ashish

 

[Rudeofus]

Then you have extremely uneven development. was the tank only half full or was there some other factor which could have caused this ?

 

[Ashish Wakhlu]

I used 330 ml solution as recommended for the Jobo Unitank 1520, there was another 120 film on a reel in the tank, from the edge markings the development is ok?

 

[Photo Engineer]

Well, the E6 CD usually contains a powerful organic silver halide solvent such as Ethylene Diamine Sulfate. In addition, a stop between the CD and the Ferri Bleach should contain some Sodium Sulfite. And, the Borohydride reversal bath is not good for stability IMHO.

It looks so far like two problems.. Bad color development and bad reversal. Just a guess.

I would have to look at several pictures.

PE

 

[Ashish Wakhlu]

Thank you, the CD I have mixed does not contain EDS, I have uploaded the formula above, how much sodium sulfite to the liter do you suggest for the stop bath between the CD and bleach. Also not using borohydride reversal means "flashing the film" for reversal, which may be tricky in the Jobo Process ?

 

[Photo Engineer]

I used light re-exposure for most of my time processing reversal films until the first reversal baths were introduced. They are still notoriously unreliable. I used a reel with 1 or 2 clear spirals and reexposed using a #1 or #2 photoflood lamp with a glass plate shield to prevent splashes. It worked just fine. I have also seen people take the film off the reel for reexposure, and then rewinding while under water.

The Na2SO3 is used at about 10g/l

The ED increases color contrast and has other good effects.

PE

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

And, the Borohydride reversal bath is not good for stability IMHO.
PE

Is Sodium Dithionite a good alternative as reversal fogging developer for colour? I use it in B&W reversal and with Orwo UN54 it seems to do a good job.

 

[Rudeofus]

I used 330 ml solution as recommended for the Jobo Unitank 1520, there was another 120 film on a reel in the tank, from the edge markings the development is ok?

Did you use the Jobo 1520 as inversion tank? If yes, then you'd need at least 450ml to fill it up. Take an empty tank, put in an empty spool plus spindle, then check with a beaker how much you need.

Reversing E6 film with bright light works surprisingly well, although I still feel uneasy when I do it (no rational reason for this, just cringing at the through of throwing light on film in a dev tank). I have used mostly Stannous Chloride in the past, but Dithionite also seems to work well.

 

[Ashish Wakhlu]

I used light re-exposure for most of my time processing reversal films until the first reversal baths were introduced. They are still notoriously unreliable. I used a reel with 1 or 2 clear spirals and reexposed using a #1 or #2 photoflood lamp with a glass plate shield to prevent splashes. It worked just fine. I have also seen people take the film off the reel for reexposure, and then rewinding while under water.

The Na2SO3 is used at about 10g/l

The ED increases color contrast and has other good effects.

PE

Thank you for your help, I will begin adding Sod Sulphite to the Stop Bath, How much ED per liter of Colour Developer Please. Also I am using large 4X5, medium and small format reversal film, I can do light reversal with one small query, If I interrupt the Jobo 6 bath E6 process at any step, will it carry on from the next in line step.. will try to study this. Also if stability is an issue with borohydride I have mixed up stabilizer as well. I am deposing some "test sheets of 4X5" to proceed.

 

[Ashish Wakhlu]

Did you use the Jobo 1520 as inversion tank? If yes, then you'd need at least 450ml to fill it up. Take an empty tank, put in an empty spool plus spindle, then check with a beaker how much you need.

Reversing E6 film with bright light works surprisingly well, although I still feel uneasy when I do it (no rational reason for this, just cringing at the through of throwing light on film in a dev tank). I have used mostly Stannous Chloride in the past, but Dithionite also seems to work well.

Thank you, I use the Jobo tank in an ATL 1000 processor running automated 6 bath E6, so no inversion, small query regarding Light inversion, if I interrupt the automated E6 6 bath process at some point will it re start from there after the reversal ?

 

[Ashish Wakhlu]

I used light re-exposure for most of my time processing reversal films until the first reversal baths were introduced. They are still notoriously unreliable. I used a reel with 1 or 2 clear spirals and reexposed using a #1 or #2 photoflood lamp with a glass plate shield to prevent splashes. It worked just fine. I have also seen people take the film off the reel for reexposure, and then rewinding while under water.

The Na2SO3 is used at about 10g/l

The ED increases color contrast and has other good effects.

PE

Small query, the Borohydride reversal contains Sodium Hydroxide, is the Sodium Sulphite in addition , thank you

 

[Photo Engineer]

Sulfite goes into the Stop Bath 2 before the bleach and after the CD. It does not go into the reversal bath.

The ED Sulfate is about 7.5 g/l, but has changed since that value was current.

I really cannot give accurate information as the formulas have all changed. I've tried, but cannot get the current information. There are many obvious errors in the formulas you posted. Among others, the real FD uses Hydroquinone Monosulfonate at about 22 - 25 g/l. So, if you mix your own color chemistry, you are on a lonely path. I can only give limited help.

PE

 

[Ashish Wakhlu]

Sulfite goes into the Stop Bath 2 before the bleach and after the CD. It does not go into the reversal bath.

The ED Sulfate is about 7.5 g/l, but has changed since that value was current.

I really cannot give accurate information as the formulas have all changed. I've tried, but cannot get the current information. There are many obvious errors in the formulas you posted. Among others, the real FD uses Hydroquinone Monosulfonate at about 22 - 25 g/l. So, if you mix your own color chemistry, you are on a lonely path. I can only give limited help.

PE

I am carefully noting each of your tips, have acquired some 4X5 velvia duplication film at about 2$ a sheet to experiment with and have set up a grey card with white red blue and green objects for test shots. Getting chemistry in India is difficult / fairly costly so for the moment I am on the lonely path ! will make up the solutions with the extra chemicals. The first developer I mix presently contains 6 gm Hydroquinone, I will up it to 25 gm. Thanks for all your help. well get back with fresh trial shots.

 

[Photo Engineer]

NO NO NO!!! HQ is NOT used in real E6. HQMS (Hydroquionone Monosulfonate Potassium salt) is used at about 20 - 25 g/l.

And, I am surprised that you cannot get chemistry in India. That is a major source of our chemistry!

PE

 

[Ashish Wakhlu]

NO NO NO!!! HQ is NOT used in real E6. HQMS (Hydroquionone Monosulfonate Potassium salt) is used at about 20 - 25 g/l.

And, I am surprised that you cannot get chemistry in India. That is a major source of our chemistry!

PE

OK thanks, what is the source of your chemistry from India, on one of the facebook forums everyone of the members who do their own processing seem to be importing it.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Most all chemistry and many drugs I see are marked "Made In India".

That is all I can tell you about the source. Sorry.

PE

 

[Ashish Wakhlu]

OK, that may apply to pharmaceuticals and raw chemicals but premixed E6 chemistry is not made in India by anyone that I know of, I had to get CD3 from China, thanks

 

[Rudeofus]

@Ashish Wakhlu : You have discussed a lot about the exact composition of your bathes, but whatever you have mixed is not the reason why you have this extreme unevenness in your slides. Do yourself a favor and rectify this before you look for process liquid optimizations. You can do these tests with regular B&W film, which should be much cheaper plus processing is much easier. Photograph white uniform surface, stop down your lens such that vignetting is under control, and mess with your ATL1000 until negs come out uniform.

Once your processor produces uniformly developed images, you could look here for better E6 FD & CD formulas. This page might give you some pointers about composition of remaining bathes.

Regarding how to obtain hard to get photochemistry: Fototechnik Suvatlar ships world wide AFAIK. Contact Saban for pricing of larger volumes, so shipping costs don't dominate total price.

 

[Ashish Wakhlu]

@Ashish Wakhlu : You have discussed a lot about the exact composition of your bathes, but whatever you have mixed is not the reason why you have this extreme unevenness in your slides. Do yourself a favor and rectify this before you look for process liquid optimizations. You can do these tests with regular B&W film, which should be much cheaper plus processing is much easier. Photograph white uniform surface, stop down your lens such that vignetting is under control, and mess with your ATL1000 until negs come out uniform.

Once your processor produces uniformly developed images, you could look here for better E6 FD & CD formulas. This page might give you some pointers about composition of remaining bathes.

Regarding how to obtain hard to get photochemistry: Fototechnik Suvatlar ships world wide AFAIK. Contact Saban for pricing of larger volumes, so shipping costs don't dominate total price.

Thank you very much for your help, I am attaching a couple of images developed in the same processor with a Unicolor 3 bath kit which show even development. While I agree that there was a bit of a "tilt" in the 1520 tank toward the lift of the processor yet there was enough solution to cover the film (I used a single sheet in the tank. so perhaps the processor is not at fault ? also if the edge markings are showing correctly (I think) then it may be an exposure error also. I am doing the tests you advised and will put up the results. Again many thanks for your inputs. regards Ashish

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

Ashish, just curious to know what exactly was your primary concern about the result you got. Was it uneven development or green colour cast? The former is easy to fix. But if you are seeing green colour cast in other slides from this batch, then it might not be easy to fix as you're using a non-standard formula and unknown quality raw chemicals from China. You are better off procuring factory prepared E6 chemistry from Europe as rightly suggested by Rudy. Tweaking a non-standard formula is not worth the effort and cost unless you really enjoy doing it IMHO.

 

[Rudeofus]

Uneven development could come from many different sources, and once solved, the green cast may go away as well. I recommend, that Ashish solves the uneven development, and if other problems pop up, then would be the time to solve them.

 

[Ashish Wakhlu]

Hi Friends,
thanks for your inputs which are very valuable to me, to address them in turn - 1) the green cast film was the only one developed in its batch and my concern was the green cast itself, other transparencies developed in the same processor do not show variable development density, it may be the wrong seating of the tank in the processor which I had noted, I will post the properly developed photos as well photos as well. 2) you have not commented on the edge markings, to my eye the edge markings in the green cast film look normal, is that correct ? if so the exposure is the problem as you have stated earlier and I will correct that in further test shots, 3) except the CD3, all other chemicals are from May and Baker or other reputed firms in India, so while the CD3 itself may be responsible, the other chemicals are not. 4) re non standard formulae as mentioned earlier I got them from Mr Derek Watkins website, but I have also checked the link kindly sent by Rudy and will compare the two. I know that in a process as complex as this elimination is the best way of pinpointing the problem. So my subsequent steps are - make another set of exposures, develop in unaltered solutions, check the edge markings and see the colors and development. 5) I have two proprietary Unicolour kits at this time and its not very difficult, just more expensive, to get more which I am using for other photosand they work very well, but just as a hobbyist I am attracted to mixing my own chemistry at this time ! thanks again

 

[Ashish Wakhlu]

Hi friends, so I mixed some more brew and made a test shot on Velvia Duplicating film with 85B filter, there was a blue cast which was corrected in PS have. Comments please,