Mixing your own darkroom chemicals - the starter kit

If you can share the name of the dealer, as well as the distributor, it would be appreciated!

Carnie Bob said:

Ok in the sizes shown Matt I can save at least 40% on Hypam each printing session which turns into good savings.

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Volume, Volume, Volume

MattKing said:

If you can share the name of the dealer, as well as the distributor, it would be appreciated!

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Light Pro Group- Ask for Mike Boylan - they are a new rep for Kodak Chem and located in Mississagau

Thanks!

Looks like they haven't yet added them to their website, but their list of dealers includes Beau Photo and Broadway Camera, so we might see them locally again.

MattKing said:

Looks like they haven't yet added them to their website, but their list of dealers includes Beau Photo and Broadway Camera, so we might see them locally again.

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This is a small operation, so they will take time to get everything up and running, I would talk to Beau or Broadway to order as I know like all the 2025 DISTRIBUTERS in this country they only take orders , need to make minimum $$ amount and wait for slow boat delivery.

Gone are the days when Ilford, Kodak and Agfa had physical plants in Canada that were well stocked, We are in the Old Mother Hubbard Times... I have to change my whole way of business and start inventory practices of the 70's and 80's , upfront money but no repetitive shipping costs and nightmares of returns.

Carnie Bob said:

This is a small operation, so they will take time to get everything up and running, I would talk to Beau or Broadway to order as I know like all the 2025 DISTRIBUTERS in this country they only take orders , need to make minimum $$ amount and wait for slow boat delivery.

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If Photo Systems/Cinestill can get up to speed, it may mean that having a USA source will improve the delivery time.
Issues of political upheaval aside, of course.
Moderator Note: And no, we won't be discussing the politics part here on Photrio!

About to demonstrate my lack of chemical knowledge here but....
According to Wikipedia "Sodium bisulfite is not a real compound,[2] but a mixture of salts that dissolve in water to give solutions composed of sodium and bisulfite ions." and:
"Sodium metabisulfite.........an inorganic compound of chemical formula Na2S2O5. When dissolved in water it forms sodium bisulfite.
So, what's the difference?
Can metabisulphite be substituted for bisulphite?
Does there need to be a proportional shift?
If they ARE interchangeable why do some formula call for both?

When a formula calls for bisulfite, simply replace it with metabisulfite. As far as I know, Kodak actually uses pure metabisulfite. I have no idea why this play on words is.

BJC0000 said:

Can metabisulphite be substituted for bisulphite?

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Simply put, metabisulfite is the solid form you buy when you want to add bisulfite to a solution.
Pure bisulfite in solid form to the best of my knowledge does not exist.

BJC0000 said:

why do some formula call for both?

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Can you given an example?
I'm aware of formulas that call for sulfite as well as bisulfite. Metabisulfite and bisulfite...nothing comes to mind.
The reason why you sometimes see bisulfite and sulfite mentioned as part of the same solution is because there's an equilibrium between them (and sulfur dioxide) that is dependent on pH (acidity/alkalinity):

From this, you can also glean that if you put sulfite into a solution and then drop pH by adding an acid, you'll essentially get bisulfite in the solution even though you never specifically added any (meta)bisulfite. The sulfite converts to bisulfite (partly, depending on pH). If you drop pH even further, some of the sulfite gases out in the form of sulfur dioxide - a pungently odorous gas. Conversely, if you put (meta)bisulfite into a solution and then raise pH, you'll get sulfite in solution.

When it comes to having both sulfite and bisulfite in the same formula, the example of a Kodak C41 developer posted here years ago by @Photo Engineer (the late Ron Mowrey) comes to mind. I suspect the sulfite and bisulfite only occur there separately as (supposedly) part of the 'same' mix because in reality, they weren't in the same mix. The bisulfite would be part of the solution together with the CD4 developing agent, while the sulfite would be included in either of the other two concentrates. Upon combination, the resulting pH would be around 10.0 and virtually all that's left would be sulfite. The metabisulfite would be there in the CD4 concentrate to stabilize it - I assume. Someone can put a definitive answer to this, I expect. I'd have to look in my correspondence with Photo Engineer what he said on the topic (if any).

The TLDR is that metabisulfite = bisulfite for all intents and purposes, and if a formula calls for the latter, what you'll actually purchase & weigh out is the former (although it may still be labeled as the latter, confusingly...) And keep in mind that sulfite and bisulfite are different things, although the are related as explained above - which means you can't substitute one for the other just like that, although a substitution is sometimes possible to an extent and under certain conditions.

Can you given an example?
Err - no. not offhand! Probably misremembered that.
Yes, I do realise that sulphite and (meta)bisulphite are different.
Thanks for that comprehensive answer - I really wanted to confirm I could substitute metabisulphite for bisulphite - just found it a bit confusing.

It's not you - it really is confusing!

With this chemistry (as per first few posts), is there any need to store in a fridge or freezer? Or is just in suitable storage containers in the house OK? Thanks.

Storage at room temperature is fine. There's one user on this forum who has reported good experience storing it in a freezer. I don't regard it as necessary.

Apart from Glycin, I don't see anything else. Personally, I avoid formulas with Glycin. It protects the psyche

koraks said:

Storage at room temperature is fine. There's one user on this forum who has reported good experience storing it in a freezer. I don't regard it as necessary.

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Thanks.