Mixing Chemicals & Developing First Roll of B&W

After watching some videos and looking online for research, I think I have an idea of how to do this (from a 27 year absence of doing it).

Chemicals Im picking up to start (with more down the road) are:
2 packets of Xtol 5L mix, 1 bottle of Ilfostop, 1 bottle of Ilfo Rapid Fix, and Kodak FotoFlo to end.

Mix the Xtol in a large container like a 2 gallon bucket (which I have at the moment). Fill container up to 4L mark with water. Mix in part A of Xtol. Stir. Mix in part B Xtol. Stir. Fill container to 5L mark with more water. Stir. Put chemicals into air tight containers for future use.

Im not sure what amount of Ilfo Stop I need. Need help here. No videos on this.

For the fixer, put in 100ml of Ilfo Rapid Fix and 400ml of water for 500ml of solution. Stir. Im told fixer can be reused. How many times can it be reused? Put used fixer into 1L container for future use.

Fotoflo only need a few drops while rinsing.

Now on to developing. Fill container with Xtol to amount needed. Check temperature. Fill another container with mixed stop. Fill another container with mixed Fixer.

Put films into light tight bag and load reels. Put into Paterson tank.
Start of developing, fill Paterson tank with room temperature water for pre rinse. Rinse for 2 minutes. Dump.
Pour in pre-measured Xtol developer. Start timer. Invert and rotate tank 5 seconds on every 30 second mark. Dump developer at end of time.
Pour in measured stop. I have no idea how long this needs to be in the tank. Ideas? Dump.
Pour in measured Fixer. Fix for 5 minutes. Does the tank need to be inverted as like developing? How often? Dump used fixer into 1L container for future re-use.
Remove lid and top from Paterson tank. Rinse with a couple drops of Fotoflo. Rinse for how long?
Let film hang and dry overnight in bathtub area.

So does this all seem correct? What changes are needed?

Make sure the water for XTOL is warm. Mix A until all of it is in solution with no specks. When B is added the solution becomes clear.

Is room temperature enough? Im pouring in from 4L jugs of distilled water stored in the bathroom at house temperature.

braxus said:

Is room temperature enough? Im pouring in from 4L jugs of distilled water stored in the bathroom at house temperature.

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I usually heat up my water to mix powder chemicals, makes for a more even process and any stubborn crystals will dissolve much better. Doesn't need to be too hot - think the directions may give a recommended mix temperature, but definitely NOT boiling.

From memory (it's been a while), if I could wash my hands in warm water out of the tap, it was pretty good to go. Not cold and not tepid - bathing temperature or close to (if it feels waaaay too hot on the back of your hand, it's waaay too hot to mix with.)

You can do at room temperature, but it will take longer and there may be crystals that simply refuse to budge; currently 15C here in Australia in the darkroom (23C inside the house) and neither temp is near warm enough to mix up chemicals.

Naturally YMMV.

Edit: you can always warm up the distilled, bottled water in a bucket - I do this to bring chemicals to temp for processing. Boiling water into the bucket, add the bottles, stick a thermometer into the chemical bottles, when it gets to 22C they get pulled out.

By the time I process, they're at 20C - perfect to develop with and if a little low, I dunk back in, if a little higher, I adjust the time.

braxus said:

Is room temperature enough? Im pouring in from 4L jugs of distilled water stored in the bathroom at house temperature.

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Most recent datasheet I have for XTOL calls for temps anywhere from 65 to 85 F. Powders tend to dissolve quicker at warmer temps, so you may want to aim for the higher end of this scale. Be sure to stir thoroughly to dissolve all the powder, but try to stir smoothly and not introduce too many air bubbles in the process. Let it cool to your processing temp before using.
Use the same amount of stop bath as you are using of developer and fixer. Enough to cover the film, at minimum. 15 to 30 sec in the stop is enough. You can reuse the stop bath.
Fixer reuse depends on it's age and number of rolls processed. Ilford states 24 rolls capacity per batch, but if I have a batch of working solution that was mixed more than a few weeks ago, I'll test it first to see how long it takes a piece of exposed film to clear. If it takes more than 5 mins to clear, I'll mix a fresh batch. Your fixing time for film should be at least double the clearing time. 5 min is usually fine for fresh fixer, but you'll want to extend that time as the fixer gets used or ages. I usually invert the tank for 5 sec every minute in fixer.
Final wash is 5-10 minutes in running water (I put a hose down the center of the tank and let the water slowly run out the top), or Ilford has specific recommendations on draining and refilling the tank in their Ilfosol datasheet.
For final rinse in Photoflo, I mix a few drops in with distilled water in the Paterson tank (about 1:300 dilution) and let the reel of film soak for about 30 seconds. Remove the reel, shake off any excess then take the film off the reel and hang to dry. No squeegee, no sponge, don't touch the film at all for at least several hours. I rinse the tanks/reels thoroughly in hot water afterward, and scrub the reels with an old toothbrush every few months. Helps prevent any buildup from chemicals and Photoflo.
I'd strongly recommend adding a step for Hypo Clearing agent before the final wash, although I don't see it in the Ilfosol Tech sheet. I use it for all films and developers.
1. After the Fixer, rinse the film for 1 minute in running water
2. Put the lid back on the tank and pour in Hypo-clearing agent working solution
3. Agitate for 5 sec every 30 sec, then drain after 2 mins
4. Then do your final 5-10 min wash
This helps to eliminate any residual fixer from the film (BAD!) and shorten your wash times.

I'll intersperse my answers with your description:

braxus said:

Mix the Xtol in a large container like a 2 gallon bucket (which I have at the moment). Fill container up to 4L mark with water. Mix in part A of Xtol. Stir. Mix in part B Xtol. Stir. Fill container with 5L mark with more water. Stir. Put chemicals into air tight containers for future use.

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Sounds good - Sirius' observations are pertinent as well, as long as "warm" is within the temperature range on the package.

braxus said:

Im not sure what amount of Ilfo Stop I need. Need help here. No videos on this

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Ilfostop working solution is mixed one part concentrate to 19 parts water. You can't store the citric acid based Ilford stop for a long time.
If I am going to be using it for a number of rolls in a couple of days, I mix it at the recommended dilution and re-use it with each batch until done. For that, you need to make enough to fill the tank to the level recommended by Paterson.
If I'm going to use it for a very few rolls and discard it, I mix it up at half strength (1 + 39), use it that way, and discard it at the end of the session.

braxus said:

For the fixer, put in 100ml of Ilfo Rapid Fix and 400ml of water for 500ml of solution. Stir. Im told fixer can be reused. How many times can it be reused? Put used fixer into 1L container for future use.

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If you are going to use a 1 litre container, you should mix up 1 litre. It is best to minimize the air that the fixer comes in contact with.
Ilford estimates that 1 litre of mixed working strength fixer has the capacity to fix 24 135-36 or 12o rolls of film. I would suggest using clip tests to monitor the activity of your fixer. Here is a resource I put together about that: https://www.photrio.com/forum/resou...ixing-procedure-for-black-white-negatives.75/

braxus said:

Fotoflo only need a few drops while rinsing.

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Actually, it is important to be consistent with dilution with Kodak Photo-flo. Generally you need to be close to the 1 + 199 dilution it is designed for, although that can be varied if water is either hard or soft. Here is another reference showing how I do it: https://www.photrio.com/forum/resources/making-and-using-a-kodak-photo-flo-stock-solution.396/

braxus said:

Now on to developing. Fill container with Xtol to amount needed. Check temperature. Fill another container with mixed stop. Fill another container with mixed Fixer.
Put films into light tight bag and load reels. Put into Paterson tank.

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Sounds good, although I tend to load the reels and tank first - sometimes the night before - and prepare the chemicals afterward.

braxus said:

.
Start of developing, fill Paterson tank with room temperature water for pre rinse. Rinse for 2 minutes. Dump.

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Whether or not you use a pre-rinse is a matter of controversy. I do.
It needs to be at the same temperature as the rest of the chemicals.
When you put the cap on the tank, be sure to "burp" it.
You should agitate during the pre-rinse portion too.
Right at the beginning, and after each agitation, you should firmly but gently rap the tank on a cloth or other protected surface to dislodge any air bubbles. This should continue throughout the process.

braxus said:

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Pour in pre-measured Xtol developer. Start timer. Invert and rotate tank 5 seconds on every 30 second mark. Dump developer at end of time.

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Be sure to include the "burp" and the rap I referred to above.
If you are going to use X-Tol one shot, you may want to use it diluted 1 + 1 for economy. Or you could consider using it replenished.

braxus said:

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Pour in measured stop. I have no idea how long this needs to be in the tank. Ideas? Dump.

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I use stop bath for two minutes, with the same burp, agitation and rap as described earlier. Manufacturer's recommendations are for as short as ten seconds. See my earlier comments about when I re-use it, and when I discard it after use.

braxus said:

.
Pour in measured Fixer. Fix for 5 minutes. Does the tank need to be inverted as like developing? How often? Dump used fixer into 1L container for future re-use

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Same burp, agitation and rap as with developer. See my above-referred to resource about doing clip tests.

braxus said:

Remove lid and top from Paterson tank. Rinse with a couple drops of Fotoflo. Rinse for how long?

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I think you forgot about washing the film before using.
Kodak recommends using Hypo Clearing Agent and a 5 minute room temperature running water wash. Ilford recommends a 5-10 minute running water wash, or a fill, agitate and dump procedure.
After the wash, fill a separate container - not the developing tank - with the working strength Photo-flo + water mixture. Something like a large yogurt container is good.
Take the film off the reels, and lower it into the mixture smoothly and evenly - you want all of the film to contact the solution.
Agitate gently for 30 seconds, making sure that the film moves around in the solution.

braxus said:

Let film hang and dry overnight in bathtub area.

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It is best if there is some humidity in the air when you hang film to dry. It is often a good idea to run the shower for a moment before the film gets hung up, as that minimizes dust.
You want the Photo-flo plus water mixture to flow off the surface of the film. I first hang the film from one end and then use my fingers to squeegee the fluid off the other end, in the leader or trailer area, NOT the image area. I then pick up that end of the film and hang it from there, letting the end that had been on top go to the bottom. I repeat the squeegee with my fingers at what is now the bottom end, again in the leader or trailer area, NOT the image area. I then clip a weight on the bottom.
If you can, pull the shower curtain or close the shower door, to minimize dust.

Hope this helps.

@braxus in addition to the good advice provided here, I would suggest you develop a habit of downloading and reading instructions (data sheets) for films and chemicals you use. They contain answers, often with illustrations, for all questions you have asked (and more!)

Here's your list:

• Kodak Xtol
• Ilfostop
• Ilford Rapid Fixer

Moreover, both Kodak and Ilford published PDFs for "how to develop B&W"

• Kodak
• Ilford (Ilford also publishes "How to process B&W" section with almost every chemical they sell, here's DD-X datasheet with instructions for everything, including stop bath)

There are a couple of ways to test your fix, one is after 1/2 the recommended time for your film, T grain film is much longer than traditional fim. take the film out of the fix and check it has cleared, if still gray keep checking until the film and clear then double the time from when the film was clear. Rapid fix for traditional is a couple of minutes, so if it does not clean in 2 I would dump your fix and mix a new batch. Other is buy fix check, I have Edwal, put a drop in, if it forms a cloud it needs to be replaced. And, maybe hypo clearing bath, I use Perma Wash, butI double the recommended wash time on the label. After wash photo flow in distilled water.

Вormental said:

@braxus in addition to the good advice provided here, I would suggest you develop a habit of downloading and reading instructions (data sheets) for films and chemicals you use. They contain answers, often with illustrations, for all questions you have asked (and more!)

Here's your list:

• Kodak Xtol
• Ilfostop
• Ilford Rapid Fixer

Moreover, both Kodak and Ilford published PDFs for "how to develop B&W"

• Kodak
• Ilford (Ilford also publishes "How to process B&W" section with almost every chemical they sell, here's DD-X datasheet with instructions for everything, including stop bath)

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Great suggestion. These gave me all of the info I needed to get started!

Braxus, while everyone has given good advice, no-one has given marks out of 10 and here's the thing: What would be the marks if no-one had given you any advice?

Well I'd say at least nine and a half out of ten. So in percentage terms how successful would you have been without help? It is more difficult to be precise here so I can only be sure to within say 2% so I'd say 100%

To Go Kodak and Go Ilford I'll add Go Canada

Relax and enjoy the process and the feeling of success when taking the roll from the reel

pentaxuser

A number of good suggestions. We each have our pet ways so I will only make some general suggestions. Mix the developer and PhotoFlo with distilled water, get a darkroom thermometer, keep a gallon container of distilled water in the refrigerator and have a one quart Pyrex measuring cup. You can control your temps by heating water in a microwave oven and adjusting with the cold and/or room temperature water. I just use water as a stop for film and acid stop for prints.

http://www.jeffreyglasser.com/

http://www.sculptureandphotography.com/

Sirius Glass said:

Make sure the water for XTOL is warm. Mix A until all of it is in solution with no specks. When B is added the solution becomes clear.

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braxus said:

Is room temperature enough? Im pouring in from 4L jugs of distilled water stored in the bathroom at house temperature.

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I went to the trouble to tell you that XTOL needs to be mixed in warm water. The instructions state that. If you do not you could spend the rest of your life getting all the particles into solution. On the other hand if you have all the time in the world do it your way, but do not come back crying about not being able to get XTOL to completely mix. Your choice.

From the February 2018 version of the datasheet:
MIXING INSTRUCTIONS Note: Observe precautionary information on the containers and in the Material Safety Data Sheets. 1. Start with an amount of water that is approximately 75 percent of the total volume indicated on the package. See the table above. The water should be at normal room temperature, about 65 to 85°F (18 to 30°C). 2. With stirring, slowly add Part A. Stir until the powder is completely dissolved. At this point, the solution may appear somewhat tawny or copper-colored. This is normal. 3. Continue stirring, and slowly add Part B. Stir until the powder is completely dissolved. The coppery tint will clear from the solution as you add Part B. 4. Add water to bring the final solution to 5 litres. 5. Stir until the solution is uniform.
(emphasis added)
Sirius is correct - if you warm the water up a bit, it will mix easier and quicker. But it will eventually mix if you are at the lower end of that temperature range.

Вormental said:

@braxus in addition to the good advice provided here, I would suggest you develop a habit of downloading and reading instructions (data sheets) for films and chemicals you use. They contain answers, often with illustrations, for all questions you have asked (and more!)

Here's your list:

• Kodak Xtol
• Ilfostop
• Ilford Rapid Fixer

Moreover, both Kodak and Ilford published PDFs for "how to develop B&W"

• Kodak
• Ilford (Ilford also publishes "How to process B&W" section with almost every chemical they sell, here's DD-X datasheet with instructions for everything, including stop bath)

Click to expand...

Yes, I very strongly agree with this and want to emphasize to the OP...
Always read the manufacturers' instructions FIRST

We use Ilfostop at school I teach at. Mix it 1+19. I always mix up a one litre batch for printing, and another for developing film. So that's 50ml stock + 950ml water. Use it until it turns blue.
For Ilford Rapid Fix, I mix it 1+4. Two litres at a time. Lasts me for two projects. That's 27 students shooting short rolls (6-8 frames). We have to go for economy and usually stretch a bit beyond best before date LoL!

Thanks for the help. I will try and warm up the water before mixing the Xtol in. Is a microwave ok to heat up part of the water and then just dump in the rest of house temp water? Just trying to find an easy solution to heat it without contaminating it.

As for being successful at this, its been so long, I needed a refresher on the procedure. I didn't have to mix the chemicals back in the day, as it was already done for us. Class can use a lot of developer in short period of time when doing class projects.

braxus said:

Thanks for the help. I will try and warm up the water before mixing the Xtol in. Is a microwave ok to heat up part of the water and then just dump in the rest of house temp water? Just trying to find an easy solution to heat it without contaminating it.

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Yes but you can just use the hot water from the tap.

I was planning on using my distilled water for this, which is why I bought it.

braxus said:

I was planning on using my distilled water for this, which is why I bought it.

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Pour hot water into a sink with a stopper in it.
Put the bottle of distilled water into the hot water for a few minutes.

Matt. Thats an idea. Never thought of that.

I use microwave almost every time I develop film. I've warmed working solutions of E6, C41, black and white. It's tremendous time saver.I use single digit times, like 6-9 seconds to bring the temp up, check the temperature after every bump.

For XTOL I heat a liter of purified water and use that to get all 4 liters up to about 84F. I don't think you would hurt the chemistry if it was 100F there's just no reason. The last liter I add cold which brings the batch down to about 75F.

It's a lot easier to warm stuff up than cool it down thanks to gravity convection currents. Cooling 1 liter bottles you need to mix well otherwise the bottom will be cold and the top hot.

[QUOTE="mshchem, post: 2328397, member: 23192"For XTOL I heat a liter of purified water and use that to get all 4 liters up to about 84F. I don't think you would hurt the chemistry if it was 100F there's just no reason..[/QUOTE]

When I mixed my Xtol (my first bag, which I've now been running replenished for a couple months) I didn't read the instructions first and, having mixed other dry chemicals in the past, heated the (purified) water to about 115F in the microwave.

Fifteen rolls and about a liter of replenishment later, and it's still fine.

I have read someone using vinegar for stop bath instead of buying it. They mixed it 1 to 4. Would this be a good idea since I have white vinegar, or should I just stick with the Ilford stop formula?

braxus said:

I have read someone using vinegar for stop bath instead of buying it. They mixed it 1 to 4. Would this be a good idea since I have white vinegar, or should I just stick with the Ilford stop formula?

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The white vinegar may contain other ingredients not ideal or harmful to film or so I have seen written on this forum but I have never seen anyone say what these harmful ingredients are. Whatever they are or are not harmful they need to act quickly because the fix goes in after a very short period and is likely nullify whatever these harmful ingredients are , if they exist at all

Unless someone can state that (a) they know what harmful ingredients are in white vinegar and how they work or (b) can say that they have tried white vinegar and have seen the harmful effects then I'd be tempted to give it a go.

Let us know how it goes

pentaxuser

If that is the case, I'll just use the Ilfostop.