Minox metallic cassettes

Minox · Oct 27, 2022

Starting with Riga, the Minox cameras benefited of metallic film cassettes; an excellent design, sturdy and storing up to 50 exposures per negative strip, these old-style film cassettes are now almost extinct. Of course there is still a good number of them on the market, many times in their original tn box, but they are not produced anymore. We know that Minox factory stopped manufacturing these cassettes in the late 60’s, aligning themselves with the new plastic age.

http://juliantanase.com/old-minox-cassettes/

Anyone still using these nowadays in their Minox cameras?

Patrick Robert James · Oct 27, 2022

I still use them in the Minox B I have. I kind of find them a pain to deal with because of the tape. I've never found a thin enough tape so the cassettes are sometimes difficult to get out of the camera. If anyone has a tape that would work I'd love to hear it.

Aside from the tape thing, they are great. The plastic ones are convenient but I've broken a few which is depressing. I'd imagine that years from now if I don't get more cassettes I'll be using the metal ones in the B and my other Minox cameras will be on the shelf...

The worst cassettes are the ones between the metal and the snap together plastic. Plastic and tape. I don't know when they were made, probably in the early 70s or so. No benefit to using those at all.

Donald Qualls · Oct 27, 2022

Patrick Robert James said:
The worst cassettes are the ones between the metal and the snap together plastic. Plastic and tape. I don't know when they were made, probably in the early 70s or so. No benefit to using those at all.

Conversely, the tape-together plastic cassette for Minolta 16 work very well. Likely due to being just that bit larger, or the film compartment in the camera having some extra clearance. Minox also cut back to 36 exposures when they went to plastic, did they not, to accommodate the wall thickness increase?

xkaes · Oct 27, 2022

Patrick Robert James said:
If anyone has a tape that would work I'd love to hear it.

I have some SUPER thin metallic tape -- it's silver and used to mat slides, etc. It might come in black, but it is OPAQUE. I think it is 3M. THIN opaque tape is out there.

I prefer the plastic Minox cassettes -- no tape, but easier to break.

xkaes · Oct 27, 2022

Donald Qualls said:
Minox also cut back to 36 exposures when they went to plastic, did they not, to accommodate the wall thickness increase?

I don't know about that, but the thickness of the film is a BIG factor. With thin microfilm, you can probably get more than 50 exposures into a Minox plastic cassette -- but I've never tried that!!!

Donald Qualls · Oct 27, 2022

xkaes said:
the thickness of the film is a BIG factor.

Sure, but Minox was using recut 35 mm stock originally, were they not? A little thicker then than now, but not enough to get 50 in a 36 exposure cassette. Unless you use thin-base microfilm, of course.

Patrick Robert James · Oct 27, 2022

Donald Qualls said:
Conversely, the tape-together plastic cassette for Minolta 16 work very well. Likely due to being just that bit larger, or the film compartment in the camera having some extra clearance. Minox also cut back to 36 exposures when they went to plastic, did they not, to accommodate the wall thickness increase?

Yup. 36. The 36 isn't too bad. They also changed the diameter of the take up bobbin on the lower numbered cassettes so they spaced right. But that meant that you get weird spacing if you load more than the 15 or whatever exposures. The change occurred because of the counter rotation. Up to the Minox B the counter counted up. Beginning with the Minox C the counter counted down so the bobbins had to be bigger for the shorter film length. Minox has an advance that gets shorter as the roll goes. If you insert a cassette in the middle of the counter the spacing is much larger. If you load a 50 exposure cassette in a later model, the spacing is fine until it ticks over, then the spacing gets huge, well, relatively speaking. IIRC if you load a 15 exposure cassette in a model that counts down without advancing it to the appropriate number on the counter, the spacing in really tight to overlapping. If it all sounds confusing, it is. I am always trying to remember which camera does what. And I am probably wrong on some of what I wrote above.

Patrick Robert James · Oct 27, 2022

xkaes said:
I don't know about that, but the thickness of the film is a BIG factor. With thin microfilm, you can probably get more than 50 exposures into a Minox plastic cassette -- but I've never tried that!!!

I have some really thin Kodak RAM microfilm that I could try, but I am not a fan of it and I don't have a slitter for 16mm. I'd bet you could easily get more than 50. In a metal cassette I'd imagine at least 75.

Minox · Oct 27, 2022

My personal experience with Minox cameras, re film reloads, is that one should avoid loading the cassettes with more than say, 40 exp per film. Even with the metallic cassettes (out of production in the late 60's) I would not load to full capacity. I broke one of my first A/IIIs cameras doing so, and I do not relish the experience.

Indeed, using thin-base film such as Fuji Super HR Microfilm, one can reload more than 36 or 40 exp per roll, but I would not advise it. If you do use a Minox tank for developing, the old type does not have the capacity of over 50 exp anyway.

I do not use metallic cassettes anymore, I just keep them in my collection as part of the Minox history. However, I still have some old type plastic ones, of those made by the German company Balda, flat caps, not snap-on. For tape, I use a 9.2mm width red tape made by 3M, of some 0.350 thickness. It is the same tape I use to tape the film to the takeup spool. No idea how it is called, but you have a link here, looks similar: https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/p/d/b40067117/.

Alternatively, you may try this tape: https://www.nitto.com/eu/en/products/e_parts/composite003/. It is only 0.420mm thin, and perhaps is a solution to your cassette taping problem.

Donald Qualls · Oct 27, 2022

Patrick Robert James said:
Minox has an advance that gets shorter as the roll goes. If you insert a cassette in the middle of the counter the spacing is much larger.

Minolta telescoping body and Kiev Vega/30/303 16 mm cameras do this, too. With these, the cam is visible when the shell is off, and you can see how each exposure moves a pin further from the pivot, which accordingly shortens the advance. And you have to do similar things to avoid overlapped frames as the roll goes on if you use extra-thin film -- plus you'll get extra wide spacing if you use a Minolta cassette (20 exposure nominal) in a Kiev 30/303 camera (30 exposure, with a smaller spool, and won't fit the Vega and Minolta cameras).

One huge advantage the Minox has, however, is that it doesn't advance when you close the body unless the shutter has been released. With Minolta/Kiev 16 mm cameras, you'll lose a frame if you open the shell and close it again without exposing. Trade off against literally half the frame area (but the Minox has a better lens) and Minox needs special equipment to process where 16 mm fits anything that can handle 110.

Patrick Robert James · Oct 27, 2022

Thanks for the tips on the tape. I've been using either Scotch vinyl electrical tape which is .17mm thick or Kapton computer tape made for mother boards and such which only .06mm thick. The Kapton works well inside the cassette for holding the film to the bobbin. I haven't had any failures and I do reuse it. (Just jinxed myself lol). It doesn't stick too well on the outside though. On the outside I use the Scotch electrical tape. I just wish I could find the original tape which is really thin, whatever it is.

Minox · Oct 27, 2022

One solution to avoid film overlapping (8x11 film cassette) is the use of a 15 exp takeup spool instead of the 36 exp one. However, this only works if the film negative is really thin, such as Fuji SHR. Mind, the other producers of 8x11 cassettes (Acmel, Yashica) may have different thicknesses of the film and take up chambers, so they may behave different when it comes to the same nominal film thickness.

ic-racer · Oct 27, 2022

Donald Qualls said:
One huge advantage the Minox has, however, is that it doesn't advance when you close the body unless the shutter has been released. With Minolta/Kiev 16 mm cameras, you'll lose a frame if you open the shell and close it again without exposing. Trade off against literally half the frame area (but the Minox has a better lens) and Minox needs special equipment to process where 16 mm fits anything that can handle 110.

Yes, in fact my Minolta has been sitting here, open, for a few days waiting for me to take a picture.

xkaes · Oct 27, 2022

Donald Qualls said:
Minox needs special equipment to process where 16 mm fits anything that can handle 110.

Special equipment, or slightly modified equipment. It's easy to turn some 16mm processing reels into Minox reels:

http://www.subclub.org/creative/reel.htm

Beseler and others made Minox (& disc) negative holders for their enlargers too -- and it's easy to mask larger format holders down to 8x11 using some of the tape listed above.. I do get a laugh everytime I put a 8x11 negative into my HUGE CB7.

ic-racer · Oct 27, 2022

I use two Jobo 1500 reels that have been cut down to fit Minox and I use them in my rotary processor.

This is my Minox printing setup for a 4x5" enlarger. That is a 5x5" glass carrier with a mask. Though I recently re-purposed a medium format enlarger for Minox use: https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/setting-up-an-enlarger-for-16mm-and-minox.180333/

Patrick Robert James · Oct 27, 2022

xkaes said:
Special equipment, or slightly modified equipment. It's easy to turn some 16mm processing reels into Minox reels:

http://www.subclub.org/creative/reel.htm

Beseler and others made Minox (& disc) negative holders for their enlargers too -- and it's easy to mask larger format holders down to 8x11 using some of the tape listed above.. I do get a laugh everytime I put a 8x11 negative into my HUGE CB7.

I have a Minox stainless reel but I don't use it much. I had some Unicolor plastic reels laying around forever so I cut them and glued them together to make Minox reels. I had to trim them to fit in a stainless tank too. Didn't take long to do. I push the film on which is easy. Getting the film back out can be a pain though I figured out that if I put the reel in water and spun it with my finger the film would move out of the reel. I have a few more Unicolor reels but I might make those 16mm. My 16mm steel reels are kind of crappy.

Patrick Robert James · Oct 27, 2022

ic-racer said:
I use two Jobo 1500 reels that have been cut down to fit Minox and I use them in my rotary processor.

This is my Minox printing setup for a 4x5" enlarger. That is a 5x5" glass carrier with a mask. Though I recently re-purposed a medium format enlarger for Minox use: https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/setting-up-an-enlarger-for-16mm-and-minox.180333/
View attachment 320124

Excellent! I do the same with my Saunders 4x5 these days. I use the 35mm condensing mixing box. Works pretty good but a little slow. I'd like to make a mixing box just for Minox. I have a mask I put on top of the glass for Minox cut from aluminum. I've used rubylith tape before as well. Before I started using the Saunders I used the Focomat 1c with a 30mm Minolta Rokkor-X lens. I use that lens on the Saunders as well. I also have a Minox enlarger but I don't really use it anymore because I only have space for the Focomat or the Minox, not both. Switching them is a pain so I use the Saunders. I also have a Mamiya Enlahead around here somewhere. That gave really sharp prints but man they took forever. Exposures were a few minutes. I don't have the patience for that.

I think I've asked you before ic-racer, but what is that lens? Schneider?

DWThomas · Oct 27, 2022

Somehow I have this vague notion that a few years back someone was supposedly on the verge of producing some new metal cartridges. But I've not attempted to keep track of such stuff -- even if I do own a Minox B. As such things go, methinks producing that kind of shape and precision at that size scale would be a pretty tedious die making project!

Minox · Oct 28, 2022

A 8x11 metallic cassette was indeed made: http://juliantanase.com/print-8x11-cassette-review/

guangong · Oct 28, 2022

I was always under the assumption that the metal cassetttes would not fit later Minox models. Please Correct me if I am wrong!
I bought a bunch of empty cassettes when Minox offered them for sale. Probably a close out sale for them.

perkeleellinen · Oct 28, 2022

MS Hobbies in the UK are selling new aluminium cassettes:

Black Aluminium Cassette for A B C BL EC ECX LX TLX CLX Atoron

New aluminium cassettes for Minox cameras. Made in the UK. A II III B BL EC TLX CLX MX Sharan 4 parts - two caps, and spool, and body. Recessed cap for the LX camera support (36 exposures) Felt supplied, but may not be necessary: wind-on 4 exposures. Recommended height of film cut for the...

mshobbies.co.uk

I'm just about to enter the world of slitting and loading my own film and am considering these cassettes.

Minox · Oct 29, 2022

guangong said:
I was always under the assumption that the metal cassetttes would not fit later Minox models. Please Correct me if I am wrong!
I bought a bunch of empty cassettes when Minox offered them for sale. Probably a close out sale for them.

They don't. I would not insert an old type, metal cassette in anything later than A/III, and of course Riga. And even then, I would be very careful. It may possble some folks use them in other camera models, but I do not.

Re Minox plastic cassettes, I purchased some 4 or 5 years ago some 120 cassettes, in two lots x 60 per lot, in pristine condition. I should've bought the bloody lot then and there, but I didn't. Anyways, I am set for years.

Minox · Oct 29, 2022

perkeleellinen said:
MS Hobbies in the UK are selling new aluminium cassettes:

Black Aluminium Cassette for A B C BL EC ECX LX TLX CLX Atoron

New aluminium cassettes for Minox cameras. Made in the UK. A II III B BL EC TLX CLX MX Sharan 4 parts - two caps, and spool, and body. Recessed cap for the LX camera support (36 exposures) Felt supplied, but may not be necessary: wind-on 4 exposures. Recommended height of film cut for the...

mshobbies.co.uk

I'm just about to enter the world of slitting and loading my own film and am considering these cassettes.

These look quite all right, I believe I will purchase a couple. I like the appearance of those grey ones . Any Minox users out there using these already? Any thoughts on them?

AgX · Oct 29, 2022

perkeleellinen said:
MS Hobbies in the UK are selling new aluminium cassettes:

Black Aluminium Cassette for A B C BL EC ECX LX TLX CLX Atoron

New aluminium cassettes for Minox cameras. Made in the UK. A II III B BL EC TLX CLX MX Sharan 4 parts - two caps, and spool, and body. Recessed cap for the LX camera support (36 exposures) Felt supplied, but may not be necessary: wind-on 4 exposures. Recommended height of film cut for the...

mshobbies.co.uk

These look injection moulded. How often do we see injecion moulded 3rd-party spares?

guangong · Oct 29, 2022

perkeleellinen said:
MS Hobbies in the UK are selling new aluminium cassettes:

Black Aluminium Cassette for A B C BL EC ECX LX TLX CLX Atoron

New aluminium cassettes for Minox cameras. Made in the UK. A II III B BL EC TLX CLX MX Sharan 4 parts - two caps, and spool, and body. Recessed cap for the LX camera support (36 exposures) Felt supplied, but may not be necessary: wind-on 4 exposures. Recommended height of film cut for the...

mshobbies.co.uk

I'm just about to enter the world of slitting and loading my own film and am considering these cassettes.

At. 99 BPs, a cheaper path may be to buy preloaded cassettes from Blue Moon and reuse them. For U.K. residents this may be a toss up. I get quite a few reuses from the Minox plastic cassettes. My method is to store the cassette bodies in one small Manila envelope, the take up spool in another, and the caps in another.
I haven’t needed to try, but some sources say that fragile bridge connecting feed and take up spools is not necessary for using Minox.
However, I am sure all Minox users would appreciate a report from user of the
new metal cassettes, especially in LX and C cameras.

Minox metallic cassettes

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