Minolta 3600 HS(D) vs Minolta 5400 HS - Which flash to buy?

[brainmonster]

These are basically the two flashes I can afford for my Maxxum 70 and Maxxum 600si.
They are fully compatible. But, the 5400 has more features, can control power output, has an LCD, more features, etc.
However, the 5400 HS does NOT work with HSS (High Speed Sync) off camera with wireless. I think it only works at 1/64 off camera which is pretty slow. On camera it can use HSS and TTL.
Only the newer 3600 HS (D) can be used wireless with HSS. But it's less advanced, doesn't have LCD, and cannot control power output!
So which one should I get? The 5600 HS (D) has all the features I want but it's like $90...I just want to experiment with flash first before I invest in something expensive like that.
Any suggestions on which one to get?

 

[wiltw]

'It depends!' upon what features/characterisitics matter most to YOU.

For me, the combination most important to me would be

• higher max power, lower min power

and the lack of HSS on wireless (assuming this is wireless directly between camera and flash) is least important, because HSS is simply not highly important to me (but it might matter to you)
There are aftermarket remote trigger transmitter/receiver units that do support HSS transmission, and are not limited to such slow speeds like 1/64.

But also, CAUTION: film SLR TTL flash is completely different from digital SLR nTTL, and features like HSS are typically a feature associated with the DIGITAL SLR!

OTOH, the 5400HS is vintage 1993, so what is meant by supporting 'high speed' while NOT supporting HSS is beyond my knowledge due to insufficient familiarity with Minolta film SLRs of 1990s vintage.

 

[wiltw]

It looks like the Minolta 3600HS is a more recent vintage flash which is compatible with RECENT cameras, but has limited capabilities with older cameras.

"USE IN COMBINATION WITH OTHER PRODUCTS Read this manual in combination with the relevant manual when any of the following products are used in combination with the 3600HS (D). Using xi Series Single Lens Reflex Cameras (Maxxum/Dynax 9xi, 7xi, 5xi, 3xi, SPxi, 2xi) • Flash is automatic in the P mode with the 9xi, 7xi, 5xi and 3xi. Fill flash may also be selected. See the camera manual for details. • Flash is automatic in the P mode with the SPxi and 2xi. Fill flash cannot be selected. • The shutter speed is set automatically in the S mode with the 7xi, 5xi, 3xi, SPxi, and 2xi. • High-speed sync cannot be used. • As the 9xi has no built-in flash, when employing wireless flash, use optional Wireless Flash Remote Control or 5600HS(D), which is sold separately. Use the AE lock button for test flash. • Test flash for the wireless flash cannot be used while Eye-start is in use. • Select Channel 1 when using wireless flash with the 3xi. • Wireless flash cannot be used with the SPxi and 2xi. Using i Series Single Lens Reflex Cameras (Maxxum/Dynax 8000i, 7000i, 5000i, 3000i) • Flash is automatic in the P mode. Fill flash may also be selected with the 8000i. See the camera manual for details. • Flash is automatic in the S mode, and the shutter speed is set automatically. • High-speed sync and wireless flash cannot be used. • As the proper exposure may not be obtained with the 5000i and 3000i, off-camera ratio flash control cannot be used.

"Using Early AF Series Single Lens Reflex Cameras (Maxxum/Minolta 9000, 7000, 5000) • The optional flash shoe adapter FS-1200 is necessary. See the FS1200 manual for details. Using APS Single Lens Reflex Cameras (Vectis S-1, S-100) • Flash is automatic in the P mode. Fill flash may be selected with the flash-mode button on the camera. • The shutter speed is set automatically in the S mode. • High-speed sync cannot be used. • As the S-100 is not equipped with an auto lock accessory shoe, the flash unit cannot be attached to the camera. Use with wireless flash. Ratio-flash control cannot be used. Set to Channel 1. • APS film (new system) differs in size from 35mm film, so that the flash coverage differs at the same focal length. This flash unit is designed for a flash coverage of 24mm with a focal length for 35mm film, so that when used with APS film focal length flash coverage is 19mm.For example, when the V Zoom 22-80mm f/4-5.6 lens is used the full flash coverage is available.

"Using Minolta Digital Cameras (Dimâge RD3000, Digital camera RD-175) • Flash is automatic in the P mode. Fill flash is used when a photo is taken while the manual fill-flash button on the camera is pressed. • The shutter speed is set automatically in the S mode. • High-speed sync cannot be used. • As the RD3000 has no built-in flash,when employing wireless flash, use optional Wireless Flash Remote Control or 5600HS, which is sold separately. Use the spot button for test flash.​

 

[brainmonster]

'It depends!' upon what features/characterisitics matter most to YOU.

OTOH, the 5400HS is vintage 1993, so what is meant by supporting 'high speed' while NOT supporting HSS is beyond my knowledge due to insufficient familiarity with Minolta film SLRs of 1990s vintage.

From what I understand, the 5400HS used HSS while used on camera with the hotshoe. But wirelessly, it is controlled and triggered by the on camera flash. When used in this way, it is limited to 1/64th of a second, while on camera it can sync up to whatever shutter speed you're using.

The 3600HS(D) can sync wirelessly with my Maxxum 70 using the on-camera flash, and can sync at any shutter speed while doing so.

My question - is 1/64th of a second enough if I want to use the flash off-camera? How important is that? I'd be worried about getting blurry shots.

That considered, I'm thinking about just getting the 3600HS(D). However, I cannot change any settings besides focal length, bounce, etc., and cannot vary the flash strength.

But it might be better for learning how to use flash.

Minolta was a leader in using flash at the time for film cameras and it was pretty advanced for using wireless flash, and developed this stuff way before other companies did.

Let me know what you think.

 

[brainmonster]

It sounds like it might be better for me to get the 3600 HS(D), because I have newer cameras that are not even mentioned there. (Maxxum 70 and 600si)

Newer is better? Maybe?

It looks like the Minolta 3600HS is a more recent vintage flash which is compatible with RECENT cameras, but has limited capabilities with older cameras.

 

[MattKing]

My question - is 1/64th of a second enough if I want to use the flash off-camera? How important is that? I'd be worried about getting blurry shots.

I'm afraid this reveals a misunderstanding.
When you are using flash as your main sort of illumination, the duration of the flash itself determines whether you end up with motion blur, and electronic flashes typically have very short durations - much shorter than 1/64 second.
The 1/64 (?? - not 1/60??) limit refers to the synch speed. Many cameras have focal plane shutters that are restricted in the range of shutter speeds that synchronize with short duration flashes.
The HSS function is a way to get around those limitations - usually by emitting many, short duration, low power flashes - but that functionality is only really useful when one is trying to use flash as a fill light, in circumstances where the main illumination is supplied by another, continuous light source (like sunlight).
Google "fill flash" for an explanation.
I wouldn't choose a flash based on the availability of that function, unless I was adding a flash to my (already too large) collection of flashes, specifically to add that very special purpose function.
And I wouldn't have any reason to do that, because I have other cameras with different sorts of shutters where the issue doesn't arise.

 

[brainmonster]

I guess that may be how I want to use the flash. I want to use the flash for creative lighting situations, off camera. So it sounds like the 5400 HS won't cut it, even though it's more powerful.

It sounds like it might be better to spring for the more expensive ($80) 5600 HS(D), and just bite the bullet. It's got all the best features of both the flashes I mentioned.

I don't have any flash currently outside of the built in flash.

After watching some youtube videos with multiple flash setups, it seems like flash power really is important and can create some beautiful images. And so is having multiple off camera flashes. So I might be purchasing a 3600 HS(D) also in the future, or just rely on that with my digital camera.

Let me know what you think about it and what the best course would be here (I have no experience with flash so any input would be helpful).

I'm afraid this reveals a misunderstanding.

The HSS function is a way to get around those limitations - usually by emitting many, short duration, low power flashes - but that functionality is only really useful when one is trying to use flash as a fill light, in circumstances where the main illumination is supplied by another, continuous light source (like sunlight).
Google "fill flash" for an explanation.
I wouldn't choose a flash based on the availability of that function, unless I was adding a flash to my (already too large) collection of flashes, specifically to add that very special purpose function.
And I wouldn't have any reason to do that, because I have other cameras with different sorts of shutters where the issue doesn't arise.

 

[wiltw]

From what I understand, the 5400HS used HSS while used on camera with the hotshoe. But wirelessly, it is controlled and triggered by the on camera flash. When used in this way, it is limited to 1/64th of a second, while on camera it can sync up to whatever shutter speed you're using..

Re-read what I quoted in Post 3; I added emphasis via blue text to the earlier post.


BTW , I learned the 600si manual that your 600si camera can use the 3600HS in HSS mode, but the actual use of HSS (at faster than X-sync) causes the flash to instantly lose between -2EV to -3EV in power output, further hurting the reach of the flash.

Then I learned in the Maxxum 70 manual:

"Wireless/remote flash allows the camera to control off camera 5600HS (D), 3600HS (D), 5400HS, 5400xi, 3600xi flash unit without need of a cable"​

bit that is via the built-in flash (optical remote) which makes it best suited for subdued or indoor lighting...in the sun it may not function adequately.

There is no mention in the Maxxum 70 user manual of a shutter speed limitation for wireless control of flash.

I urge you to consult user manuals for both of your camera models and for flash units you are considering!
They are available on-line, which is how I could find out everything I posted so far about the cameras and flash units.

 

[MattKing]

Even if HSS would work with your camera, I'd be willing to bet that you would almost never have need to use it.

 

[brainmonster]

OK, so you recommend the cheaper 5400 HS? That seems to be a good bet, it's pretty high powered.

Consulting the manual BTW, it seems like the Maxxum 70 does work with HSS on the 3600 HS(D), but not with the 600SI. So complicated. But if I will never need to use it, I'll just stick with the cheap 5400 HS.

Even if HSS would work with your camera, I'd be willing to bet that you would almost never have need to use it.

Re-read what I quoted in Post 3; I added emphasis via blue text to the earlier post.

 

[dabsond]

I have two of the 5400HS units. Excellent flash. If they have been sitting for a while you may need to recondition the capacitor. It will take several cycles to get back to normal.