Minimum equipment for fiber based printing at home?

MTGseattle said:

I need to get myself setup to print at home. I scanned through an older (2012) post regarding archival washing, and the differences in people's workflows were quite pronounced.
So, without framing in a new space and running plumbing and electrical, what are my minimum requirements for a knock-down darkroom er, printing station?

1. enlarger with appropriate kit for my negatives: check.
2. Trays for chemistry; sort of check. Do I need to have a fix 1 and fix 2 if I'm the only one printing?
3. safelight; check.
4. gra-lab or other timer of some type; check.
5. archival print washer; check. will likely get placed in the bathtub.

6. a decent viewing spot; sort of check. I can figure this out though.

If I buy some sheets of poly or acrylic to cover my trays, how long can I keep my chemistry? Isn't there a chemical in a small dropper bottle for checking either dev or fixer? Cloudy= bad?

The trays will likely be setup on plywood and sawhorses. The enlarger will sit on a weird box thing I built for something else but will fit and be stable. There may be an extension cord involved, but I have a decent 20-amp circuit ready to go.

My biggest fear is dust. This will be in an unfinished basement with likely just a heavy drapery used as a room divider.

What am I forgetting?

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A filter funnel, or better two: one for developer, one for everything else.

MTGseattle said:

This seems appropriate.

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I always like videos where the colour of the presenter's beard matches the colour of his dog's fur

snusmumriken said:

That sounds interesting, but I’ve always been dubious about the amount of silver involved. How much silver have you actually recovered in this way?

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I've been banking my sludge for a few years now but I did the math on a number of (mostly volume) boxes out dated papers I've on hand and it looks to be about 40 ounces, if processed correctly, but for those, I think I'll try incineration recovery, which the Army, at least, had the kit for in its mobil darkroom trucks.

Electrolysis works and it's been a tool I've used for many years now, so I have real experience with removing 'solid' metals from barrels, that tells me I can rely on it for recovering silver from films and paper (firing&fixing combined) and fixing and, if needed, using ammonia water solution on dried sludge, for getting this job done.

I also am considering using some small solar cells I have on hand, for when I do recover silver metal, so I can forgo the cost of regular batteries or household electricity for recharging small cells, C & D types.

By the way, for those curious about the plastic flash light tool, its simple to make, uses the bulb as an 'on' indicator and a long brass rod, insulated by rubber spaces from the barrel wall, and a rubber stopper insulating, in the barrel mouth, so you'll be cleaning from the chamber end if the gun, with the rod and barrel becoming the anode and cathode for basically electrode plating the copper, brass and lead fouling lining the barrel, onto the brass rod.

Use caution with electricity and 'waters', as usually recomended

Maximum treatment is 15 minutes, and most of the rifles I've used this with are C&R bolt guns and I'm always amazed how much crude or sludge from bullets is removed in the short cleaning cycle.

This is NOT a regular treatment for guns, shoot a few copper jacketed rounds after firing lead bullets or Flash Copper Coated lead types, the harder copper jacketed bullets will cause the lead to peal away from the grooves, in many cases.

I do not see with the current volume of negitive's I make in small, medium, and large formats, these das, a lot of silver recovery, it's not as when I shot 75-100 feet of film a week, when I was younger, but I am a penny saved adherent, Ben Franklin fan, so it is not a matter of making money, just saving silver.

Old papers have lots of silver, and pre T grain films too, so don't just throw them out in the darkroom trash, use them for fun, to see how much you can recover in a lifetime or years of shooting.

Otherwise gift them to a local neighborhood photographer or environmentalists who does practice recovery and keeps this toxic metal out of our bacterial dependent sewers and water recovery plants.

Cheers.

MattKing said:

I always like videos where the colour of the presenter's beard matches the colour of his dog's fur

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For sure.

snusmumriken said:

That sounds interesting, but I’ve always been dubious about the amount of silver involved. How much silver have you actually recovered in this way?

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In the eighties and nineties, when I had five or six 10 liter containers filled with old fix, I would call a company and they'd come pick them up. Then, after some weeks, they'd send me a justification of what they got out of it and paid me a good sum of money.

After that, I would still call them, but they just came to pick it up. No more money in it. These days the city's waste comes into town with a truck very near my workspace. I bring them 1 liter bottles with finished fix, at no expense for me . . .

MattKing said:

Tongs, not tongues!

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Ooops, sorry! I am German and I confused the words.

Sanug said:

Ooops, sorry! I am German and I confused the words.

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No apology necessary . It was a malapropism that made me smile.

For some reason I thought simple empty opaque 1-gallon jugs (not necessarily the "datatainers") would be easy to find. I've got a lead on some though. I'll find out in the morning.
Since I've been sitting on various darkroom bits and pieces for years, I realized I actually have 5 11x14 trays on hand already. Good news.
Food service storage trays just occurred to me for use as wash trays.

I've got my system mostly sorted out for now. I had a decent printing session yesterday (we will call it my 4th since starting this thread). My final steps (washing and drying) are still the most awkward. I've got the Patterson trays that are 12x16 for printing 11x14. I'm using a salvaged solid door slab from a school on sawhorses for my "wet" side. This gives me enough length for; Dev, stop, fix1, fix2 and a water holding tray. Fix 1 and 2 are turned 90 degrees to the other trays, and my holding tray is one of those mixing tubs.
My wash regimen requires a partial tear down and cleaning of 3 trays then a refill with clean water and HCA respectively. I squeegee in a clean 20x24 tray. Drying screens simply spread all over the floor on top of boxes. I need to cobble together a drying rack. (It annoys me when hobbies require further projects). 2 pieces of plywood with some dadoed channels and a cross-brace of some type is all I need. My tablessaw and some other tools are languishing on a job site right now.

I used to stack drying screens with wooden blocks between them. Screen one goes on four blocks, prints go on, four more blocks are added, screen two goes on, prints go on four more blocks... etc. I finally got some dadoed 2x2s that just fit on the frames of the screens, basically 2x2 blocks with a groove in them. I had a sack of blocks and a sack of screens stored till I needed them.

When I was short on wet-side space, I divided my sessions into two parts. Developer, stop and fix 1 plus holding and wash for one session. I'd dry down the prints between sessions, choose the keepers and the save up for a toning session: Soak, fix 2, selenium toner, wash aid and wash for step two. Maybe that will help your space issues.

Best,

Doremus

I use my master bathroom sink. I put a plywood board across the two sinks with tree trays, the window covered, the door has a cover on the outside and I put the acrylic paper washer in the bath tub with a sheet of glass behind the washer for using a roller to remove the excess water. I take the washed prints in a tray to the drum dyer in the dry darkroom. I use Dektol developer and time the development with a clock set to 2 minutes, thus removing one variable and not having to guess when to remove the print from the developer.

MTGseattle said:

I've got my system mostly sorted out for now. I had a decent printing session yesterday (we will call it my 4th since starting this thread). My final steps (washing and drying) are still the most awkward. I've got the Patterson trays that are 12x16 for printing 11x14. I'm using a salvaged solid door slab from a school on sawhorses for my "wet" side. This gives me enough length for; Dev, stop, fix1, fix2 and a water holding tray. Fix 1 and 2 are turned 90 degrees to the other trays, and my holding tray is one of those mixing tubs.
My wash regimen requires a partial tear down and cleaning of 3 trays then a refill with clean water and HCA respectively. I squeegee in a clean 20x24 tray. Drying screens simply spread all over the floor on top of boxes. I need to cobble together a drying rack. (It annoys me when hobbies require further projects). 2 pieces of plywood with some dadoed channels and a cross-brace of some type is all I need. My tablessaw and some other tools are languishing on a job site right now.

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I made a simple drying rack that hangs under my wet table. (I have no sink or running water.) It consists of aluminum strips from the hardware store screwed under the table and supporting L-shaped aluminum channels, all put together with pop rivets. The screens slide on the L channels and can be stored horizontally when not in use. That holds 5 screens. When I have a big batch of prints to dry, I drag out a cheap sweater drying rack that will hold about two dozen more prints.

I use one of these Elfa frames and a set of fiberglass window screens bought at Home Depot as a drying rack. Inexpensive, simple, lightweight, and can be put on casters so it's easy to move as necessary. They come in various heights and widths too.

logan2z said:

I use one of these Elfa frames and a set of fiberglass window screens bought at Home Depot as a drying rack. Inexpensive, simple, lightweight, and can be put on casters so it's easy to move as necessary. They come in various heights and widths too.

Elfa Drawer Frame

Discover a wide selection of Elfa Classic shelving components including brackets, standards, drawers, knobs, closet rods & more at The Container Store.

www.containerstore.com

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Ikea sells something similar, much less expensive. https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/jonaxel-frame-white-60419957/

Pieter12 said:

Ikea sells something similar, much less expensive. https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/jonaxel-frame-white-60419957/

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Good to know, thanks.

The Ikea 41 inch rack looks pretty good, you can always use painted wood laths from the home store or cut them yourself, from say, Straight Grained 2x4" lumber, on a table saw, then sand and paint them smooth.

Either of these could then be used with hot glue, to secure the polymer screen, directly on the sides and a set of close fitting lath for the front and back supports.

You could also use wood blocks/spacers to add additional self-built drying frames between the structure's rack bars, which I think should help Fiber Based Papers from curving too much while drying.

Heated air dryers are good as well but with drum heaters or two sided canvas types, you can more quickly dry FB papers than atmospheric drying will.

IMO.

Good suggestions everyone. I'll likely build something as I have the needed tools and a garage overflowing with spare materials. That Elfa or Ikea rack looks like a relatively cheap easy option though.

The under the wet table area in my situation is film fridge, tray storage and misc storage otherwise that's a really good idea.

Get paper-tape to glue the curly bastards up to get them flat if you go with fiber
As for washing, I think people are over-washing things, I simply dump my prints into a large tray with water to the brim, let them soak for 1 hour and then wash them down with the shower.
Someone did a test to see how well different washing worked and basically, according to this, you will be fine just keeping your finished trays in a single tray of water and then rinsing it, before drying, use less water too:


I've always done it like that and my prints have not faded or discolored during the past decade at least.

I use window screens for drying. After using print dryers and blotter books, this has been cheap, easy and reliable. The aluminum frames act as spacers, just enough space for circulation and to keep fiber prints relatively flat. You can stack them anywhere. Rack and spacers not necessary.

Saganich said:

I use window screens for drying. After using print dryers and blotter books, this has been cheap, easy and reliable. The aluminum frames act as spacers, just enough space for circulation and to keep fiber prints relatively flat. You can stack them anywhere. Rack and spacers not necessary.

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I agree. At different times of the year the temperature & humidity of my darkroom and house vary a lot. So i put the screens in different places to dry. I also agree that racks and spaces eat a lot of darkroom space....

Saganich said:

I use window screens for drying. After using print dryers and blotter books, this has been cheap, easy and reliable. The aluminum frames act as spacers, just enough space for circulation and to keep fiber prints relatively flat. You can stack them anywhere. Rack and spacers not necessary.

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I have an Omega Arkay dual dri [sic] Professional Model 150 that I got in 2007 when they were practically giving them away. I had to replace the drying apron because it had gotten stained, but screens work well too.

GregY said:

I agree. At different times of the year the temperature & humidity of my darkroom and house vary a lot. So i put the screens in different places to dry. I also agree that racks and spaces eat a lot of darkroom space....

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A rack takes up less space than trying to strew 6-10 screens around the darkroom with space for air to circulate and dry the prints.

Pieter12 said:

A rack takes up less space than trying to strew 6-10 screens around the darkroom with space for air to circulate and dry the prints.

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Stacking them on a work table works fine too. It all depends on your space available. In my case the only space i have is under my sink...which is far from ideal. After all though, the topic was "minimum equipment"( "requirements for a knock-down darkroom er, printing station? ). & in my darkrooms, a rack has been far down the priority list.

GregY said:

Stacking them on a work table works fine too. It all depends on your space available. In my case the only space i have is under my sink...which is far from ideal. After all though, the topic was "minimum equipment"( "requirements for a knock-down darkroom er, printing station? ). & in my darkrooms, a rack has been far down the priority list.

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No sink, but a work table. Home-made rack holds 5 screens will dry 10 8x10 prints.

Pieter12 said:

No sink, but a work table. Home-made rack holds 5 screens will dry 10 8x10 prints.
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Very nice.