Minilab chemistry for C-41/E-6/ECN-2 bleaching & fixing, but developing & stabilizing as well - possible?

[abrakafocus]

Hey y’all! Hope everyone’s doing well.

I’ve been searching through Photrio for some time, but I’ve only found fragmented answers or isolated discussions — mostly without any visible results (please correct me if I’m wrong).

My question is: Is it possible to use Minilab RA-4 chemistry for C-41, E-6, or ECN-2 film processes — not only for bleaching and fixing, but also for developing and stabilizing?

I have a Kodak Flexicolor LORR LU Developer Replenisher with the matching Starter, but I’m struggling to source the bleach (BL) and fixer (FX) components. They’re hard to find, which is why I’m wondering:

Can Minilab RA-4 chemistry substitute for C-41 / E-6 / ECN-2 bleaching, fixing, developing, or stabilizing steps?

Any insights or experience with compatible substitutes would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

 

[koraks]

Welcome to Photrio!

Is it possible to use Minilab RA-4 chemistry for C-41, E-6, or ECN-2 film processes — not only for bleaching and fixing, but also for developing and stabilizing?

Simple answer: no.

W.r.t. bleaching & fixing: paper and film are very different in terms of silver content and the nature of this silver content, which very strongly affects the type of bleach and fix needed as well as the process conditions. Between C41&ECN2 film and E6 there are also distinct differences. ECN2 and C41 film are fairly comparable in this regard.

W.r.t. development: while you will get an image if you cross process everything in the same developer, the results will be poor even if you experimentally determine processing parameters (time & temperature) that yield the best compromise. It'll still be, well, crap.

There are some ways in which you could simplify the chemistry setup. For instance, you could technically speaking use a C41 fixer for C41, ECN2, E6 film and RA4 paper (if you run the paper through a non-standard bleach-then-fix process instead of a regular blix process). You could likewise use a C41 bleach for ECN2 film as well as RA4 paper, and possibly also for E6 film (you may have to adjust bleach time for the latter). You can cross-process ECN2 film in C41 developer and vice versa, and some people find the results OK - I personally don't agree as the results are very much sub-bar. But if you only scan your film and don't intend to optically print it, you may be able to sort of get away with it (but it's a compromise).

The simple answer is that if you want good results, you should use the specific chemistry intended for the film/paper.

 

[abrakafocus]

Welcome to Photrio!



Simple answer: no.

W.r.t. bleaching & fixing: paper and film are very different in terms of silver content and the nature of this silver content, which very strongly affects the type of bleach and fix needed as well as the process conditions. Between C41&ECN2 film and E6 there are also distinct differences. ECN2 and C41 film are fairly comparable in this regard.

W.r.t. development: while you will get an image if you cross process everything in the same developer, the results will be poor even if you experimentally determine processing parameters (time & temperature) that yield the best compromise. It'll still be, well, crap.

There are some ways in which you could simplify the chemistry setup. For instance, you could technically speaking use a C41 fixer for C41, ECN2, E6 film and RA4 paper (if you run the paper through a non-standard bleach-then-fix process instead of a regular blix process). You could likewise use a C41 bleach for ECN2 film as well as RA4 paper, and possibly also for E6 film (you may have to adjust bleach time for the latter). You can cross-process ECN2 film in C41 developer and vice versa, and some people find the results OK - I personally don't agree as the results are very much sub-bar. But if you only scan your film and don't intend to optically print it, you may be able to sort of get away with it (but it's a compromise).

The simple answer is that if you want good results, you should use the specific chemistry intended for the film/paper.

Thank you for the confirmation! I was expecting this kind of answer; I just needed a bit of justification. Small kits are used up quickly, and moving to anything bigger than a Jobo is costly—so, sadly, that’s the story. Achieving great results remains the priority, of course. Cheers!

Just one more question: since RA-4 BL/FX baths are not an option, is it possible to use Fuji Environeg C41-RA Bleach or Tetenal Ergoline C-41 RA Bleachbath with an alternative fixer in small rotary systems? Thanks!

 

[koraks]

is it possible to use Fuji Environeg C41-RA Bleach or Tetenal Ergoline C-41 RA Bleachbath with an alternative fixer in small rotary systems?

For what purpose? Film, paper; what kind?

 

[abrakafocus]

For what purpose? Film, paper; what kind?

Film(s). Thanks!

 

[koraks]

Well, that's what they're intended for, so sure. At least for C41 and it will also work for ECN2 (I use Fuji EnviroNeg bleach for both). Bleach times may be longer for E6 and there can be additional caveats. With E6, you may need to add an extra stabilizer step (not a C41 final rinse, which is not truly a stabilizer) if the stabilizer is part of the bleach bath. I guess that would depend on the rest of the E6 process you're running, so it's more difficult to comment.

 

[abrakafocus]

Well, that's what they're intended for, so sure. At least for C41 and it will also work for ECN2 (I use Fuji EnviroNeg bleach for both). Bleach times may be longer for E6 and there can be additional caveats. With E6, you may need to add an extra stabilizer step (not a C41 final rinse, which is not truly a stabilizer) if the stabilizer is part of the bleach bath. I guess that would depend on the rest of the E6 process you're running, so it's more difficult to comment.

That’s great to hear, really! I’m currently deciding between two options: a Tetenal Ergoline C41-RA 5L Bleachbath kit (an older warehouse batch for around 40 €) or a new Fuji EnviroNeg Bleach for about 110 €. Unfortunately, I haven’t found any fixer available at the moment.


How do you usually dilute (or mix) the Fuji EnviroNeg? I typically prepare small batches of about 0.5 L. Hope I'm not asking too much. Thanks!

 

[koraks]

The bleach lasts pretty much forever regardless of how you store it. So I just take from the jug what I need and put the cap back on.

 

[abrakafocus]

So, practically speaking, I could use the complete C-41 RA chemistry in my Jobo rotary system, right? Looking at some local distributors’ stock, it seems I can actually get the full Fujihunt EnviroNeg set — developer, starter (if needed), bleach, fixer, and stabilizer. Does that sound correct? Thanks!

 

[koraks]

Yes, that chemistry will work fine in a Jobo and also in manually agitated tanks etc.