Mini Speed Graphic 2x3 lens board adapter and other questions

StoneNYC · Sep 15, 2014

So my uncle have me his mini speed graphic, it's AWESOME!!! And tiny...

While I'm still recovering from my 8x10 purchases, I won't be spending money on some 2x3 film for a few weeks.

In the mean time I wanted to play with the 11.5cm Jena lens in a compur shutter, unbelievably the shutter fires just fine and sounds accurate at all speeds! Better than one of my copal shutters!!!

Anyway it's sort of BOLTED into the lensboard, it looks more like a petzval type attachment, so I can't really take it off the board easily. I was wondering...

Did they make any kind of adapter that would take this tiny lens board? Specifically either a toyo 45 style board or even better a linhof technica board adapter that would accept the tiny board but fit on a camera made to accept linhof technica boards?

I used google but can't find anything. I would think they are sort of rare.

Based on the look of the lens it should corner 4x5 and would like to shoot it on my 4x5 camera.

Also there's a kind of sync adapter on the back of the camera, it's a circle with two prongs sticking out. The shutter sync on the lens doesn't seem to be there so I assume this is a flash sync attachment is connected to the focal plane shutter?

I can't find the right manual for this camera.

Ok please help me find out how to shoot this with a flash! And how to use the lens on another camera!

Ken Nadvornick · Sep 15, 2014

StoneNYC said:
Ok please help me find out how to shoot this with a flash!

First dump anything electronic, of course. Real men only use flashbulbs with a Graphic.

Ken

shutterfinger · Sep 15, 2014

The Miniature Speed Graphic was introduced in 1939 and made through 1946. It is basically a Anniversary Speed Graphic in 2 1/4 x 3 1/4 format therefore the operating instructions for the Anniversary Speed will cover the camera's controls and features. See: http://www.southbristolviews.com/pics/Graphic/manual-pdf/Anniversary.pdf

Also there's a kind of sync adapter on the back of the camera, it's a circle with two prongs sticking out. The shutter sync on the lens doesn't seem to be there so I assume this is a flash sync attachment is connected to the focal plane shutter?

That is the BiPost sync terminals for the focal plane shutter. They are only good if you are using FP flash bulbs with a 2 or 3 cell flash synchronizer as they were called in the day.

In the mean time I wanted to play with the 11.5cm Jena lens in a compur shutter, unbelievably the shutter fires just fine and sounds accurate at all speeds! Better than one of my copal shutters!!!

Anyway it's sort of BOLTED into the lensboard, it looks more like a petzval type attachment, so I can't really take it off the board easily. I was wondering...

Jena is the city in Germany where the factory the lens was made in is located. The 1933 Zeiss Photo Lens Catalog, http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/zeiss_3.html , shows a Protar in 11 1/2 inch focal length that will cover 5x7. Other Zeiss lens of the era are are 12 inch focal length.

Flash sync with shutters having no flash sync built in was to fire the flash bulb in a 2 or 3 cell synchronizer then trip the shutter with a solenoid adjusted so that the shutter tripped 15ms to 20ms after the flash bulb fired so that the bulb would be at its peak output when the shutter reached full open. See http://www.graflex.org/ Technical Information and Article headings for more info on using flashbulbs.

Dan Fromm · Sep 15, 2014

Shutter bolted on? More likely screwed into a flange. Look closely. Unscrew the lens from the flange, remove the flange from the board, stick the lens into the larger board of choice (with a hole the right size), screw the flange on to the rear of the shutter. If the arrangement isn't as I've implicitly described, show us a picture of it.

Adapter to larger boards? DIY time, I'm afraid. Miniature Speed Graphic boards are flat pieces of wood so modifying the larger board of choice to hold one isn't a huge or particularly difficult job.

As Charles told you, the flash terminal at the upper left corner of the back is for bulb flash only. If you want to use the lens with electronic flash you have two options: add (or have the job done) X-sync to the shutter, put the cells in a shutter with X-sync. The cells might (great stress might) be direct fits in a standard shutter, most likely #0.

If the lens is an f/4.5 Tessar (that's the most likely) it will cover around 127 mm. If an f/6.3er, just barely 4x5 if stopped way down.

A question. Does the camera have a Graflok back or a spring back? If a spring back, it can use roll film in an Adapt-A-Roll 620. Read about the AAR in the Speed Graphic FAQ at www.graflex.org. I wrote that section of the FAQ, don't feel like typing it again.

Y'r post is another example of the corrupting power of found photographic equipment.

Roger Hesketh · Sep 15, 2014

The original boards for the Miniature Speed Graphics were made of Bakelite and are next to impossible to find. It is not a difficult job to make new ones for additional lenses out of ply though. I have a soft spot for MSG's they are such pretty little cameras.

I suspect you will find that the flange for the lens has been bolted onto the lens board, The lens boards are quite thin so their is insufficient thickness for a screw to get a purchase even if you could find a screw small enough. That is what I have used in he past, small machine screws through nuts to secure the flanges, when I have made replacement lens boards for them.

StoneNYC · Sep 15, 2014

Roger Hesketh said:
The original boards for the Miniature Speed Graphics were made of Bakelite and are next to impossible to find. It is not a difficult job to make new ones for additional lenses out of ply though. I have a soft spot for MSG's they are such pretty little cameras.

I suspect you will find that the flange for the lens has been bolted onto the lens board, The lens boards are quite thin so their is insufficient thickness for a screw to get a purchase even if you could find a screw small enough. That is what I have used in he past, small machine screws through nuts to secure the flanges, when I have made replacement lens boards for them.

Yes this one is bake light not wood so I'm hesitant to remove it from the board.

Perhaps someone has a destroyed mini speed that I can salvage the front standard from and use it to make an adapter board?

Roger Hesketh · Sep 15, 2014

The lens should just unscrew from the board. It will be the flange not the lens and shutter that is screwed to the board.

bdial · Sep 15, 2014

No real need to destroy a front standard to make an adaptor. It's just a matter of making a suitable sized hole in the larger board of whatever type and then devising a way to secure the Graphic board. That could be as simple as some black tape, to a clever collection of custom hardware.

StoneNYC · Sep 15, 2014

I understand that some people find that Jerry rigging something is good enough, but I don't want to put tape over this beautiful camera, and I don't want to take the lens out of the original board as I want to be able to easily interchange them, so that's why I'm thinking maybe using a front standard from a non-usable camera would be best. If an adapter doesn't exist.

shutterfinger · Sep 15, 2014

An adapter board is generally easy to make depending on the lens board design of the camera being adapted to.
What camera do you want to adapt the Mini's board to?
The cutout for a Miniature Speed board will be simple to make.
A piece of .010 to .030 inch thick flat aluminum, brass, or steel 1/4 inch longer than the base of the lens board attached to the adapter on the lower edge of the cutout for the Miniature board so that it extends 1/8-3/32 inch into the board opening is sufficient for the base and is close to what Graflex used on their cameras.
On the top use one or two brass fender washers, large outside diameter small center hole, and bend one side 90° with the bend at the edge of the attaching screw head and use a screw with a shoulder on it so the washer can turn. Attach so that the flat side of the washer just clears the board opening. Insert the board into the opening and turn the washer to secure. Similar devices were used on view cameras for years before slide locks were invented.

Roger Hesketh · Sep 15, 2014

You don't need to to take the lens out of the board. Just tape the whole lens board including the lens over the hole in the lens board of the camera you want to use. Easy enough to peel off the tape from the lens board when you have finished the shoot. You do not have to put tape on the 'beautiful camera' just temporarily around the edge of the lens board. The tape is unlikely to leave a glue residue on the shiny bakelite but if it does it will be easy to rub off the shiny surface.

Whiteymorange · Sep 15, 2014

Stone,
Calm down and breath deeply. I will send you a board or two for the Speed if you send a picture of the front standard. Is it really bakelite? The bakelite version of the 2x3 was the Century Graphic, without a FP shutter. The Anniversary took a flat board that can be easily made with plywood, Masonite or black foamcore. The Pacemaker took shaped aluminum boards with a flange on the edge. I have a few or each sitting on the PHSNE warehouse or in my storage area (euphemistically called my studio at times). Give me the hole size you're looking for as well.

If you want to try the lens on a 4x5, just tape the board to the front of a larger lens board that has a hole large enough. You're not taping the "beautiful camera," just taping the edges of the lens board once it's off the camera, as bdial, and Roger say. The lens is probably a 11.5cm Carl Zeiss Tessar from the Jena factory (or CZJ), made after the war. It will not cover 4x5 very well, but it's worth playing with.

Roger Hesketh · Sep 15, 2014

Whiteymorange said:
Is it really bakelite?
.

Yes it is. The Miniature Pacemaker board is a completely different animal it is a scaled down version of a 4x5 Pacemaker board. The Miniature Speed Graphic board is like a scaled down version of an Anniversary Speed Graphic board only made of Bakelite not wood.

Roger Hesketh · Sep 15, 2014

Whitey here is a picture of the rear face of an undrilled one. The front face is just shiny black.They are a smidge under 2.5 inches square.

Dan Fromm · Sep 15, 2014

Whiteymorange said:
The bakelite version of the 2x3 was the Century Graphic, without a FP shutter. <snip>. The Pacemaker took shaped aluminum boards with a flange on the edge.

Whitey, the Century Graphic is a plastic bodied 2x3 Pacemaker Crown Graphic. It takes the same stamped metal lensboards as the other 2x3 Pacemaker Graphics (Speed and Crown). I have all three.

FWIW, I've had one Miniature Speed Graphic, sold it long ago. IIRC it had a wooden lens board. There may have been a change in material during the production run. Alternatively, we have more evidence that my memory is failing. Perhaps both.

Thanks for urging Stone to calm down. He's prone to getting overexcited and, unfortunately, deaf. If not deaf, fixated on ideas that aren't always good.

Cheers,

Dan

bdial · Sep 15, 2014

My meaning was that it's possible to make an adaptor board that is as crude or fancy as you like, depending on the materials, tooling and skills you have at hand. I like to leave cannibalizing another camera as a last resort. I've made a pretty nice adaptor board for my Korona just using common hardware store bits and some masonite/plywood. In my case I am adapting a 4 inch square board as used on Calumet CC400 or Graphic View to the Korona which has a 6 inch sq. board. But the principals apply to any combination.

If the goal is to simply try out the lens from the 2x3 on a larger camera, then it may not be worth going to a lot of effort. In which case, a board with a suitable hole for the second camera and a bit of tape, and you're there. OTH, if you have a lens that you'd like to swap between cameras routinely, then something a little more elaborate is probably in order.
If you don't have the skills or equipment, and want something for regular use, the usual suspects for getting something made would be SK Grimes or Richard Ritter, your particular application may well be something either one has done before. Or else, put up a "WTB" and see if you can get someone to offer something up.

StoneNYC · Sep 16, 2014

Roger Hesketh said:
Whitey here is a picture of the rear face of an undrilled one. The front face is just shiny black.They are a smidge under 2.5 inches square.
View attachment 94688

Yup that's it, how the heck did you get an undrilled board from the 30's/40's??

StoneNYC · Sep 16, 2014

Whiteymorange said:
Stone,
Calm down and breath deeply. I will send you a board or two for the Speed if you send a picture of the front standard. Is it really bakelite? The bakelite version of the 2x3 was the Century Graphic, without a FP shutter. The Anniversary took a flat board that can be easily made with plywood, Masonite or black foamcore. The Pacemaker took shaped aluminum boards with a flange on the edge. I have a few or each sitting on the PHSNE warehouse or in my storage area (euphemistically called my studio at times). Give me the hole size you're looking for as well.

If you want to try the lens on a 4x5, just tape the board to the front of a larger lens board that has a hole large enough. You're not taping the "beautiful camera," just taping the edges of the lens board once it's off the camera, as bdial, and Roger say. The lens is probably a 11.5cm Carl Zeiss Tessar from the Jena factory (or CZJ), made after the war. It will not cover 4x5 very well, but it's worth playing with.

I'm calm I'm just excited

This Camera only had one owner it's entire life and now I'm number two and it was well stored no must mold smell and the leather is still supple.

BTW can you use a leather cleaner on this to rejuvenate the leather bellows and camera body? I'm assuming it's all real leather?

Didn't you have some roll film backs for this at the beach party? I didn't pay much attention at the time because I didn't have anything that size.

Here's the back btw with the ... Spring? Back?

shutterfinger · Sep 16, 2014

BTW can you use a leather cleaner on this to rejuvenate the leather bellows and camera body? I'm assuming it's all real leather?

XXX Moroccan on the body to be exact. I do not know the type of leather used for the bellows but they are leather.

I clean old cameras with a Windex saturated paper towel then treat with a light coat of Neatsfoot oil. Pledge in the yellow can works well also. Black shoe polish as well as some leather dyes can be used to cover nicks and scratches.

Here's the back btw with the ... Spring? Back?

yes, that's a Spring back.

Whiteymorange · Sep 16, 2014

Yes, I know about the various versions of the Speed, Century, Anniversary and Pacemaker 2x3 Graphics. The only bakelite boards I have ever seen, however, were on the Century. Every Miniature Anniversary Speed I have ever held has had a wooden board. This does not mean that they weren't sold with Bakelite, just that I haven't seen them.

As for the spring back, Stone, you are in need of something I did not have with me at the beach, a roll-film adapter that fits under the back. Adapt-a-roll 620 will work, but you have to have a 620 reel to take up the film (you can load from 120). I don't know if there is a Calumet version for these cameras as there is for 4x5. Or you can change the back to a Graflok, which will take the "22" and "23" holders. If you need sheet film holders, I have extra.

mgb74 · Sep 16, 2014

StoneNYC said:
I'm calm I'm just excited

BTW can you use a leather cleaner on this to rejuvenate the leather bellows and camera body? I'm assuming it's all real leather?

View attachment 94699

I've seen a number of posts here and LFF with suggestions on what to use on leather bellows. It seems to me that the consensus (if there is one) is the "stuff" used to treat leather book bindings.

Dan Fromm · Sep 16, 2014

Whiteymorange said:
Yes, I know about the various versions of the Speed, Century, Anniversary and Pacemaker 2x3 Graphics. The only bakelite boards I have ever seen, however, were on the Century. Every Miniature Anniversary Speed I have ever held has had a wooden board. This does not mean that they weren't sold with Bakelite, just that I haven't seen them.

As for the spring back, Stone, you are in need of something I did not have with me at the beach, a roll-film adapter that fits under the back. Adapt-a-roll 620 will work, but you have to have a 620 reel to take up the film (you can load from 120). I don't know if there is a Calumet version for these cameras as there is for 4x5. Or you can change the back to a Graflok, which will take the "22" and "23" holders. If you need sheet film holders, I have extra.

Whitey, factory issue boards for all Pacemaker Graphics are stamped metal with a lip that fits in the front standard's light trap. If you saw a Century with a bakelite board, you saw a Century with a bodged homebrew board that didn't fit properly. You may have seen a Century with a black anodized aftermarket metal board or with a black carbon fiber/resin (epoxy?) aftermarket board that fits properly and thought black = bakelite. The carbon fiber boards come out of eastern Europe. All of the reports I've seen on them were very favorable.

Cambo insertion type roll holders, some badged Calumet or Orbit, are made to fit only 4x5 cameras. There are no little ones. Busch made an insertion type roll holder for the 2x3 Pressman. They use 120 film, are quite rare.

E. von Hoegh · Sep 16, 2014

mgb74 said:
I've seen a number of posts here and LFF with suggestions on what to use on leather bellows. It seems to me that the consensus (if there is one) is the "stuff" used to treat leather book bindings.

I use "Neat's foot Oil". NOT "Neatsfoot oil compound". There's a difference. Read the label! - the compound contains other stuff which may or may not do things like dissolve glue, etc.
Another excellent product is Lexol, but be aware that it's an emulsion and therefore contains water. Overapplication could dissolve certain glues.

Also, Stone, leather cleaner cleans leather. Nothing will rejuvenate old, dried out, cracked & brittle leather. Taking care of the leather with either of the above products will help prevent deterioration though. If the bellos are stiff, don't keep folding and unfolding them. Oil them, wait a day, oil them again. Light applications, just wipe a film on with a cotton ball. Use a Q-tip to get to the bottom of the pleats. Be patient.

Old-N-Feeble · Sep 16, 2014

Probably the easiest way to make an adapter board is to find a junk Graphic camera with the correct front standard (or just the parts) and transfer the board mounting assembly to the front of whatever larger board you want. Below is an example of a recessed Toyo View board with a Graphic 4x5 front mount. Each corner was drilled through and bolts/nuts used to fasten it with some black silicon between them to make the union light-tight. A little Lock-Tite was used on the threads to keep the nuts from coming loose because they're not very tight because tightening them much smashes the thin aluminum of the Graphic mount. The Toyo board was cut out to make use of the largest lenses possible. The work is sloppy but I did it about twenty or thirty years ago with hand tools. Also, I didn't much care what it looked like anyway. I was just wanting to save space in my camera bag and those small Graphic boards did the trick.

Old-N-Feeble · Sep 16, 2014

mgb74 said:
I've seen a number of posts here and LFF with suggestions on what to use on leather bellows. It seems to me that the consensus (if there is one) is the "stuff" used to treat leather book bindings.

Neatsfoot oil on the bellows and black leather "dye" on the body covering.

Mini Speed Graphic 2x3 lens board adapter and other questions

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