Mid-tone control in lith prints?

[Pete H]

Can anyone suggest a way to control the mid-tones in a lith print?
I am exposing for the highlights and developing until the blacks reach the desired density. This results in darker mid-tones than I would like. Reducing the exposure causes a loss of highlight detail. Reducing the development time gives incomplete blacks.
What else can I try? Dodging the midtones is impractical because of the amount of detail.
Any other ideas gratefully received!

 

[yellowcat]

I think you will need to experiment with different developers to get any mid-tone detail.
What are you using now?

 

[Pete H]

I think you will need to experiment with different developers to get any mid-tone detail.
What are you using now?

Moersch SE5, various dilutions between 1+1+12 and 1+1+50. The paper seems to have more influence than the dilution. I get better results with PWT than with Fomatone MG or Fortezo. Unfortunately my stock of Forte papers is dwindling.

 

[Matthijs]

Perhaps this document is of any use to you:
http://moersch-photochemie.de/daten/pdf/LithPrintingTechniqueTroubleshooting.pdf

 

[MarkL]

It is possible to do it with a contrast mask on a 2nd piece of film. You could make a mask that dodges the shadows and/or highlights and align it with your neg in the enlarger. Or you could make one that would burn in the highlights. It would take a bit of effort but some things only a mask can do.

 

[jfish]

I can't recall having any issue with the midtones. Perhaps they weren't as important in the final as other parts were so I didn't care, or I was able to dodge them easily enough and not lose any detail. I've always had my clients produce contrastier negs for lith printing, whether through lighting, film choice or my development, but I guess I've never run into the problem. Not sure how the tonal range is on your negs, but maybe that part of your process needs adjusting for lith printing.

Good luck

 

[Bob Carnie]

Try using a second enlarger and flashing the paper, if you do not have a second one, a diffused lamp on timer will work.

the flash will be of great assistance

 

[blaze-on]

I have sometimes flashed the paper as Bob mentioned, and other times, used a 50% yellow filter for exposing prior to the no filters main exposure.
Sometime zapping the whole image with grade 5 too.

 

[matti]

Are they dark because the image develops too quickly? Then dilute more or add bromide (D). If you do that it will take longer for the print to develop, so the blacks will get the infectous development before the midtones are too dark.
I often have a hard time getting my head around the lith thinking, so I am not sure about this one. But this is what I would try.
With Forteezo, I use 15+25+1000+2.5+10 wit SE5. That is A+B+water+C (sulf)+D (brom).
You can also check with Wolfgang. He seems to have tried all papers and made special starting points for dilutions.
Forteezo always gives me great tones. Sometimes sweet colors too.
/matti