Mid-range ISO Color Negative (CN) Question

Discussion in '35mm Cameras and Accessories' started by PGraham3, Nov 8, 2018 at 8:26 AM.

  1. PGraham3

    PGraham3 Subscriber
    Ads Enabled

    Messages:
    177
    Joined:
    May 18, 2016
    Location:
    Seoul, South Korea
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Howdy, APUG!
    I’m thinking of buying some 15-year-old 400 ISO Color Negative film that was basically left in a desk drawer (normal temperature) from a colleague of mine. Just curious, does mid-range ISO color negative (CN) film degrade essentially at the same rate as high-to-low end color or slide films, or does it essentially maintain its quality like most black and white films?
    Thanks!
    -Paul
     
  2. CMoore

    CMoore Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,406
    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2015
    Location:
    USA CA 94585
    Shooter:
    35mm
    How many rolls are you talking about.?
     
  3. trendland

    trendland Member
    Ads Enabled

    Messages:
    2,565
    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2012
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    I would 1) state : It is more in concern of the Film (manufacturing / emulsion characteristics with c41)
    - but of course ISO 1600 Films may react in other manner when expiration date is reached than normal ISO but it is no "must"
    2) a midt ISO is more at ISO 200 in c41 - for bw films you are right with ISO400 (just from my point)
    3) it is allways in concern of the pricing - I own a 152meter Roll of Polypan F for example (fresh Film not expired) for many photographers this emulsions is just a nightmare. Not for me because I don't need a highle expensive bw Film on every single shooting (I shot sometimes 18 Films in 3 hours)
    so there is no must for 18 Delta400/3200/.....just 5 would be enough and I shot most different Films during one shooting (alsoE6).
    In short my roll Polipan F is fine to me and cost me just 60bucks (152m = ~ 100 Films).

    So it is with your expired Films 20 Films at 10 bucks would be fine ? (Not 10 bucks per single Film of course).

    But if the Film is real Bad there is no way in highest scales (just from my point) so pls don't buy
    40 x 30,5 Meter rolls (100ft?) for cheap pricing because you may waste 1200 Meter Film at last.
    First get a single roll for less and test it (from my suposing the Films should be Ok - but who knows).
    10 - 15 % of the regular today's pricing of that Film is amost correct.
    To pay more is an individual case of "friendship"

    with regards
     
  4. trendland

    trendland Member
    Ads Enabled

    Messages:
    2,565
    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2012
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Forgetting to state : If it is Fuji C200 you may have extraordinary luck after 15 years (small color shiftings but "U S A B L E" with Kodak it depends on actual Temperatures from storage.
    15years are most too much for Kodak professionel c41.
    To be safe I would like to state :If Films have an age of 15 years (they have min. 2 years to come on expiration - but not with professional Films and here is exactly THE DIFFERRENCE - ) it may be that also Kodak Gold400 is allwright (12,5 years after expiration) - but that is allmost in a storage environment with "normal" temperature for example a storeroom in U1 !
    If Temperaturen had come higher (during summer) you can waste all the Films (one single hot summer period of 6 weeks will kill Expired Films imediately.....:cry:

    Bon chance
     
  5. Chan Tran

    Chan Tran Member
    Ads Enabled

    Messages:
    3,480
    Joined:
    May 10, 2006
    Location:
    Aurora, IL
    Shooter:
    35mm
    I wouldn't even use them if they are free. New films are not that expensive. Processing is quite expensive. I would process them if they are already exposed but not shooting any with old films. How much saving really?
     
  6. trendland

    trendland Member
    Ads Enabled

    Messages:
    2,565
    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2012
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Chan Tran - we fellows quite remember to crossing aera out of the 80th? During the beginning 90th it
    was everybodys darling for Fashion and advertising (/ E6 cross developing).

    The today's equation is shooting expired color Films (with bw films I would agree with you).
    So the issue of sawing money isn't the main reason - but of course one should not spent more money as it goes about old emulsions. Lomo made a business from that. Rollei made experiments from
    unconventional use of c41, the company in the US with that Name I allways forget made a legal robbery with some expired Films.

    with regards:wink:
     
  7. railwayman3

    railwayman3 Member
    Ads Enabled

    Messages:
    2,586
    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2008
    Shooter:
    35mm
    On the whole, I have been surprised by how long outdated film can last and still produce very acceptable results. OTOH, and from experience, I'd be very dubious about spending any money on 15 y.o. 400ASA consumer film.which had never been fridged or frozen. As Chan Tran suggests, new films are not prohibitively expensive, as compared with your time, possible disappointment, and the wasted cost of processing if unsuccessful.
     
  8. Pentode

    Pentode Subscriber
    Ads Enabled

    Messages:
    291
    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2017
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    In my experience, color print film does not age especially well compared to B&W and fast (400) color film does not age well compared to slow (100 and under). Add the fact that it was stored in a desk drawer for 15 years and you can be almost sure your colors will be off, contrast will be low, sensitivity will have dropped and grain increased.

    Unless you’re getting this film extremely cheap I doubt you’ll have much fun shooting with it.

    Since the color has likely shifted anyway you could always experiment with cross-processing it in B&W chemistry, but I wouldn’t pay much for the experiment, personally.
     
  9. MattKing

    MattKing Subscriber
    Ads Enabled

    Messages:
    23,523
    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2005
    Location:
    Delta, BC, Canada
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    29 year expired Vericolour, after some post processing:

    10c-2018-10-23b-res.jpg
     
  10. Les Sarile

    Les Sarile Member
    Ads Enabled

    Messages:
    2,024
    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2010
    Location:
    Santa Cruz, CA
    Shooter:
    35mm
    18 year old film - Kodak Royal Gold 25 that's been refrigerated. Shot at box speed, processed normally straight up scan with no color/contrast post work. Perfectly fine.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    18 year old Kodak Ektar 125 left out in a hot Atlanta open driveway. Shot at ISO32, processed at box speed, straight up scan with no color or contrast post work. looks normal.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    If you only have one roll, you might try overexposing by 2 or 3 stops to compensate for speed change although most color negatives can handle overexposure by much more anyway.
     
  11. trendland

    trendland Member
    Ads Enabled

    Messages:
    2,565
    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2012
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    You are THE CHAMPION of the week Matt.....:happy:!:wink:

    with regards

    29 years that is much too much for me:unsure:.....the proudiest results I remember was with some
    amatheuric Fuji C41 (8 -9 years old) - forgotten films = outside freezer and yes some pale colors I remember but shifts were not realy visable - not more than I remember from bad 1hour prints from labs:pinch:!
     
  12. trendland

    trendland Member
    Ads Enabled

    Messages:
    2,565
    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2012
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Sorry I just intend to reply railwayman but from tipping you are adressed both - never mind - I find no way to awoid (don't come back with set up:wondering:)

    Okay railwayman3 - to explain (the most you might know - I be sure)

    Professional Films (within the past) were shipped after a period of storage by manufacturers and came to stores in "couled" condition. This was in regard of finest characteristics (I doubt a bit and sugest "further reason" but that should not be the issue here) - and you had to use it imediately or you had to store it "couled" within the expiration guarantee.
    No prof had problems to come to expiration because of weekly demand to New Films.
    So no prof would had made experience with expiration of professional films.
    No prof would had taken such riscs.
    Of course professional films will hold characteristics some time after expiration but sure they suffer.

    With amatheuric films it is different : In the past they came fresh produced into shipping (remember the billions demand per year in the very old days.)
    BTW that practice with fresh films also changed today (I will not commend issues here).
    Generaly the task of amatheuric films was (amatheuric workflow) to use a film during holidays.
    (hot temperatures) to hold the last years Christmas film over month in the camera till it is finished.
    So amatheuric films may be more resistent ? Perhaps - but I doubt a bit (they should have same resistence) but they were shipped the day after production (in the past:whistling:)!
    And generaly c41 Films can be used outside guarantee for a xx time.
    That xx is different from color layers/ couplers / design!
    If you have some luck the colors bleach out intensity rate (sorry for that english) is nearly the same from expiration to each single layer. So you lost saturation of your film till the day x were the first color shifts are visable come.Then the sifting is killing the original characteristics of films more and more.
    From my point (hope PE will not insist:cry:) that process of "oldering" is different to the process of oldering with developed films in regard of long time storage of finished films.
    For sure such processes of damage are simular but not 100% identical.:pinch:(hope)!

    And some films (simular with bw emulsions) can be used AFTER expiration. From my point one year without problems (without couling) - the process of damage is caused in a form of multiplicating
    storage time x log storage temperature.


    So you might have no chances in case of high temperatures. Some amatheuric photograpers remember from storage films during holidays in their cars:whistling::D. Some of them used professionell films for better quality and stored in their cars:pinch::sick:

    But if you have a special emulsion from c41 with less color shifts intensity you'll louse grain characteristics and intensive colors but it may hold for some years (for me the min. sould be after
    1 - 1,5 years after expiration of c41 Films - max. time is limited from 4 - 6 years.

    But it is relative from the point you realy identify "visable" change. Remember most c41 are from design more saturated.

    From my point the duration to a point of unacceptable characteristics may be at 2 years after expiration - 7 years. But that is an individual relative point.

    Sure you can forget biggest prints after expiration - but for smal prints or for scanning workflow?
    It is highly dependable.:wink: and most different from film to film. And some of our younger fellows
    love such characteristics and began to store fresh films on a heater!
    A very good method to destroy films - belive me:angel:!

    with regards

    PS : cheap expired Films are better prepared for heater storage:kissing:
     
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies. If you have a Photrio account, please log in (and select 'stay logged in') to prevent recurrence of this notice.