Microfilms (or: will there ever be a new CMS20?)

[Henning Serger]

But they're really just the same thing?

As explained above: Just different wording / expression / semantics. Partly because of historic reasons (see Matt's post), partly because of different terms used in different countries / regions.

Is that film also produced by AGFA or MACO and being discontinued soon too?

Maco is not a manufacturer. They do not produce anything by themselves. They are to 100% a distribution company. All products offered under the Maco or Rollei-Film name are produced by other manufacturers for Maco.
SPUR Ultra R 800 is also based on an Agfa microfilm, and that film (as all Agfa microfilms) was discontinued, too.

Can you push these developers as well?

Yes, in the sense that the characteristic curves / the density values in the highlight zones remain relatively moderate and in the printable range.

Best regards,
Henning

 

[mshchem]

EI for daylight, tungsten and nuclear fusion

 

[Alan Johnson]

There are numerous films that might function as a replacement for CMS20, eg:

Eastman By The Numbers: BW Movie Film for Your Still Camera - The Film Photography Project

The Film Photography Project informs, engages and inspires film enthusiasts of all levels. While promoting the viability of vintage cameras and film.

filmphotographyproject.com

The problem seems to be that the development data is only given for "ordinary" developers and the result is relatively low ISO compared to CMS20 in its low contrast developer Adotech. Thus to get higher ISO with one of these replacement films there seems to be no readily available low contrast commercial developer, except this might work, I did not try it:

https://www.digitaltruth.com/products/photoformulary_tech/Formulary%20TD-3%20Developer%20[01-0065].pdf

Eastman 2369 ,aka 5369, seems to have the highest response at 200lppm frequency:

https://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/E5369/e5369.html

 

[Alan Johnson]

http://www.goinglomo.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/Kodak-5369-Technical-Data.pdf

FPP High-Con 2369

 

[ADOX Fotoimpex]

I have to wonder how long the need for microfilm will keep it around...digital storage is much more compact, more conducive to copying for distribution than film copying, and can have incredibly fine resolution.

There is no such thing as digital long term storage. You continuously have to rewrite from one failing harddisk to a new one. Anything that needs to be readily accesible is better of in a digital storage but if you want to archive large amounts of data film beats digital currently after year 8. In other words: The costs for the film, developer, tin can and space in an abandoned salt mine (good for the next 10k years) are lower than 8 years of continuous rewriting of data and maintaining/replacing datacenter infrastructure. Not to mention the lower CO2 footprint.

 

[wiltw]

There is no such thing as digital long term storage. You continuously have to rewrite from one failing harddisk to a new one. Anything that needs to be readily accesible is better of in a digital storage but if you want to archive large amounts of data film beats digital currently after year 8. In other words: The costs for the film, developer, tin can and space in an abandoned salt mine (good for the next 10k years) are lower than 8 years of continuous rewriting of data and maintaining/replacing datacenter infrastructure. Not to mention the lower CO2 footprint.

Am well aware of the not-permanent nature of storage media for digital, yet I failed to consider that when speculating about replacement of microfilm with digital storage.
Certainly, periodic re-write of digital data can be automated, making sustenance of data less arduous for those responsible for perpetuity of data, but the cost of long term permanence is indeed higher. Yet if one archival agency burns and distributes digital data 'refresh' copies to tens of thousands of subscribing entities, the overhead need not be monstrous.

 

[cptrios]

The Fuji HR-20 microfilm is available unperforated in bulk rolls of 35mm with a minimum order of 20 but IMO it seems unlikely that it will be available in cassettes and perforated in the forseeable future.

Does anyone on here have any experience with HR-20? Microfilmworld.com (which is where I assume you're looking at it too) says it's equivalent to Imagelink, but who knows. I'd definitely be interested in going in on a bulk order if anyone else is...but 20 rolls might be a big ask!

By the way, does anyone have a recommendation for how to fit a microfilm bulk spool into a daylight loader? Is pretty much the only option to respool it onto a standard 35mm one?