MF, Polaroids, & Brides

[StoneNYC]

To add - the flash question stems from the mention of the cactus in your earlier post.



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Cactus? hmm I don't remember that ... haha

However I don't know about the RB but the RZ does have a hot shoe yes, and it fires all the way up to the max shutter speed of 1/400 synced to the flash with no issues.

 

[analoguey]

Cactus? hmm I don't remember that ... haha

However I don't know about the RB but the RZ does have a hot shoe yes, and it fires all the way up to the max shutter speed of 1/400 synced to the flash with no issues.

Oh wow. I should have read more about the RZ then! Even though I prefer a fully manual camera, I can still fire off-camera flash on my Nikon FG with a remote trigger. This would be a handy feature to have on the RB!

Re-reading your post, I think ill have some more questions on the RZ! :-D


P.s. Meant this below; Are the cactus and pocket wizards different brands? Not very brand aware on this, sorry!

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Fourth, I also use my pocket wizards to fire off the RZ67 Pro II camera with studio strobes, it works great, BUT you MUST buy the NEW pocket wizard Plus III because the Plus II version isn't oriented correctly and gets in the way of the focusing knob on the body of the RZ. There's one work around, if you own the canon or nikon specific pocket wizards and got that little "interference" in between adapter thing, it's a small piece of metal and plastic that extends the height of the hot shoe slightly (and prevents interference if you add an on camera flash on top of your pocket wizard) anyway this little piece will extend the Plus II high enough that you can attach it properly, that's what I used until I switched to the Plus III system and realized I didn't need the stupid connector anymore (thank goodness I was always misplacing it).

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[StoneNYC]

Oh wow. I should have read more about the RZ then! Even though I prefer a fully manual camera, I can still fire off-camera flash on my Nikon FG with a remote trigger. This would be a handy feature to have on the RB!

Re-reading your post, I think ill have some more questions on the RZ! :-D


P.s. Meant this below; Are the cactus and pocket wizards different brands? Not very brand aware on this, sorry!

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I don't see the word "cactus" anywhere in the text that I typed, sorry, still confused, and I've never heard of cactus brand...


As far as your nikon, you can still use the pc x-sync to fire your flash on the RB, it's a small metal round hole, you can buy an attachment "hot shoe" that connects to it with a wire, it's how everyone used to use a flash before they were integrated into the camera's body.

Go to a camera store and they should have one... they look like this...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PC-Sync-Flashlight-Cable-Hot-Shoe-Cord-for-Nikon-Camera-/270831854642

 

[analoguey]

I meant these (cactus); and umm, I mis-read it - I got confused between different brands.

I already have a hotshoe on the Nikon, so thankfully no PC-sync cable required, I wouldnt require that for 35mm thankfully. Looks promising for the RB, although I am not sure where I would be able to tether or place that cable to!

 

[StoneNYC]

I meant these (cactus); and umm, I mis-read it - I got confused between different brands.

I already have a hotshoe on the Nikon, so thankfully no PC-sync cable required, I wouldnt require that for 35mm thankfully. Looks promising for the RB, although I am not sure where I would be able to tether or place that cable to!

Ok when you reference a product that someone else hasn't mentioned, you should make it clear that you're talking about some other brand. That said, those cactus look to be really cheap triggers, I'm not saying they aren't good, I'm just not familiar with a lot of the lower brand names, I only use pocket wizard brand which is top of the line.

You need to do more research... you need the PC sync cable for the RB, and then you also need this... http://www.amazon.com/Bower-Flash-Bracket-Video/dp/B000NL5X5S or one like it, it's an L bracket with a cold shoe attachment (or in this case two attachments for vertical and horizontal (you don't need both for the RB with rotating back, you just need the top one). You attach the bottom of the L to the bottom of the camera where the tripod attachment hole is, and then your trigger on top with the PC x-sync cable.

These statements are not meant to sound angry, I'm just often direct, so please don't read this the wrong way, you're doing fine, obviously new, very anxious (I probably sound like this to a lot of people here) but try and google some of this stuff before you ask, in fact, try and learn more about this stuff before you buy an expensive camera that you're not sure how to use HAHA And READ YOUR RB67 MANUAL!! If you had you wouldn't have asked about the x-sync or other questions.

http://www.butkus.org/chinon/mamiya/mamiya_rb67_pro-s/mamiya_rb67_pro_s.htm

 

[mweintraub]

I use the CTR-301P flash triggers and they are rated to sync up to 1/500. Not all of the wireless ones do. Something to make sure when researching.

 

[analoguey]

Ok when you reference a product that someone else hasn't mentioned, you should make it clear that you're talking about some other brand.

As I said, I mis-read and confused (mistook) one brand for another. Don't think I could be clearer on that!

These statements are not meant to sound angry, I'm just often direct, so please don't read this the wrong way, you're doing fine, obviously new, very anxious (I probably sound like this to a lot of people here) but try and google some of this stuff before you ask, in fact, try and learn more about this stuff before you buy an expensive camera that you're not sure how to use HAHA And READ YOUR RB67 MANUAL!! If you had you wouldn't have asked about the x-sync or other questions.

http://www.butkus.org/chinon/mamiya/mamiya_rb67_pro-s/mamiya_rb67_pro_s.htm

Haha, thanks! Neither anxious nor new to Google, my questions were actually more on the RZ v RB(specifically as you had an RZ), and the manual really wouldn't have helped there!


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[analoguey]

I use the CTR-301P flash triggers and they are rated to sync up to 1/500. Not all of the wireless ones do. Something to make sure when researching.

Thanks, will keep that in mind; most of my current set-up doesn't go that fast yet!

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[MattKing]

The Cactus brand triggers have certain models that are rated to withstand high synch trigger voltages, so in that way they are different from most of the cheap triggers out there.

And with the exception of the original RB67 Pro models, the RB67 has most of the same safety interlocks as the RZ67 models.

The RB67 offers a 6x8 option, whereas the RZ67 does not. It is a bit difficult to put into effect, as the necessary accessory parts are not well documented.

 

[mweintraub]

Thanks, will keep that in mind; most of my current set-up doesn't go that fast yet!

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Fair enough, but some only go to up 1/250 or 1/125. It's always good to over shoot with wireless sync speeds because the fastest they sync will drop based on interference, battery voltage, etc.

The RB/RZs go up to 1/400, right?

 

[MattKing]

Fair enough, but some only go to up 1/250 or 1/125. It's always good to over shoot with wireless sync speeds because the fastest they sync will drop based on interference, battery voltage, etc.

The RB/RZs go up to 1/400, right?

The RB/RZs do go up to 1/400, but the question is complicated by the fact that the RB/RZ shutters are leaf shutters, not focal plane shutters.

 

[mweintraub]

The RB/RZs do go up to 1/400, but the question is complicated by the fact that the RB/RZ shutters are leaf shutters, not focal plane shutters.

Not sure what gets complicated. Leaf shutters are great because it can sync up to max shutter speeds.

 

[StoneNYC]

Not sure what gets complicated. Leaf shutters are great because it can sync up to max shutter speeds.

He means leaf shutters don't usually go past 1/400 or 1/500th of a second, where curtain shutters can go to 1/8000 of a second, that's all he means..

However, you really don't need anything faster than 1/400 heck 1/250 is fine even for stop motion work unless its a bullet...

If you're already taking the time to set lights and meter etc, then throwing on an ND filter for a super bright scene if you want a more shallow depth of field is really not that hard.

You really only need 1/1000+ speeds when your out doing documentary work or sports photography etc when you're changing settings on the fly IMO.

I'm sure there's some rare case you need faster, but for the most part it's not needed so as long as it syncs to 1/400 you're fine. And focal plane shutters usually don't sync faster than 1/250 anyway unless you use their "high speed sync" features which I believe create a longer more extended flash that fires BEFORE the shutter moves and the burst lasts through the whole shutter movement rather than firing the flash and shutter at the same time, so you lose a lot of power with the high speed sync, and also, again, don't usually need it.

If any of that is incorrect, please correct me, but that's my understanding.


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[omaha]

That's pretty much it.

The "high speed sync" stuff that modern Canikons deliver is based on lower power/extended duration flash that allows for flash coverage over the entire period of shutter activation.

The problem being solved here is that, unlike leaf shutters, focal plane shutters (above their rated sync speed) do not expose the entire film plane at the same instant: The "closing" shutter starts closing before the "opening" shutter is fully open. Think of it as a slit being waved over the film/sensor.

 

[mweintraub]

Yes, on all accounts above.

One thing about the ND filter is that it's not a single bullet fix. When using, say, a two stop ND filter, you have to adjust your power as if you're shooting 2 stops slower film. This means more power is required.

 

[MattKing]

What I meant, is that the question is made more complicated because it is harder to test whether the system is functioning properly.

If a wireless transmitter fires the flash at the wrong time with a focal plane shutter, the entire frame won't be illuminated - this is easy to see in a test exposure.

Whereas if a wireless transmitter fires the flash at the wrong time with a leaf shutter, the entire frame may very well be illuminated, but the exposure may be less, because of the shutter not being at its maximum opening. That is harder to verify in a test exposure.

 

[StoneNYC]

What I meant, is that the question is made more complicated because it is harder to test whether the system is functioning properly.

If a wireless transmitter fires the flash at the wrong time with a focal plane shutter, the entire frame won't be illuminated - this is easy to see in a test exposure.

Whereas if a wireless transmitter fires the flash at the wrong time with a leaf shutter, the entire frame may very well be illuminated, but the exposure may be less, because of the shutter not being at its maximum opening. That is harder to verify in a test exposure.

Never thought if that


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[StoneNYC]

That's pretty much it.

The "high speed sync" stuff that modern Canikons deliver is based on lower power/extended duration flash that allows for flash coverage over the entire period of shutter activation.

The problem being solved here is that, unlike leaf shutters, focal plane shutters (above their rated sync speed) do not expose the entire film plane at the same instant: The "closing" shutter starts closing before the "opening" shutter is fully open. Think of it as a slit being waved over the film/sensor.

Ultra fast scanning back hahahaa


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[StoneNYC]

Yes, on all accounts above.

One thing about the ND filter is that it's not a single bullet fix. When using, say, a two stop ND filter, you have to adjust your power as if you're shooting 2 stops slower film. This means more power is required.

Yes I agree, but again, if you're opening up your aperture to the point you need an ND filter above 1/400 of a second, and a 1200ws strobe isn't enough for you for the scene, it's a pretty specialized scene and you should be able to afford more specialized equipment at that point... Haha

I'm going on the assumption that if you're shooting with a pro level camera that has a 1/400 leaf shutter you're a pro with pro lighting of at least 1200ws of power.

I don't often NEED that much power, but I certainly have that much in the field and double that in the studio.

If you're only shooting with 300-600ws of power you might be somewhat limited, but I don't think many out there who could afford $2,000+ camera systems somehow can't afford the lighting to match.

Assumptions, all assumptions...


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[mweintraub]

What I meant, is that the question is made more complicated because it is harder to test whether the system is functioning properly.

If a wireless transmitter fires the flash at the wrong time with a focal plane shutter, the entire frame won't be illuminated - this is easy to see in a test exposure.

Whereas if a wireless transmitter fires the flash at the wrong time with a leaf shutter, the entire frame may very well be illuminated, but the exposure may be less, because of the shutter not being at its maximum opening. That is harder to verify in a test exposure.

Couldn't you do the white wall test? Shoot a white wall at a high speed (little ambient light) and see if there is light "fall off".

Yes I agree, but again, if you're opening up your aperture to the point you need an ND filter above 1/400 of a second, and a 1200ws strobe isn't enough for you for the scene, it's a pretty specialized scene and you should be able to afford more specialized equipment at that point... Haha

I'm going on the assumption that if you're shooting with a pro level camera that has a 1/400 leaf shutter you're a pro with pro lighting of at least 1200ws of power.

I don't often NEED that much power, but I certainly have that much in the field and double that in the studio.

If you're only shooting with 300-600ws of power you might be somewhat limited, but I don't think many out there who could afford $2,000+ camera systems somehow can't afford the lighting to match.

Assumptions, all assumptions...


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$2000+ camera? My Mamiya Pro and Bronica SQ-A kits together don't come to that price. With the prices of MF gear now adays, it allows for serious hobbiest or professional wannabes to step up their film gear and shoot with awesome setups. I'm definitely stepping up my lighting, but I'm not near 1200ws yet.

 

[StoneNYC]

Couldn't you do the white wall test? Shoot a white wall at a high speed (little ambient light) and see if there is light "fall off".



$2000+ camera? My Mamiya Pro and Bronica SQ-A kits together don't come to that price. With the prices of MF gear now adays, it allows for serious hobbiest or professional wannabes to step up their film gear and shoot with awesome setups. I'm definitely stepping up my lighting, but I'm not near 1200ws yet.

Haha point about the hobbyists but then they probably can't create art that needs any fancy lighting anyway OHHHHHHH!!! burn!!!

All in fun ^^^

Even my new toyo 4x5 was cheap in compassion to new prices, it's very true. But really, we are always limited to what we can afford, that said, needing such a wide aperture in general at 1/400 is still really unnecessary in most situations, either use a slower speed film, or a lens with a later focal length to accomplish your goals you have to work with what you've got

Also I won't even bother using any power pack lower than 1200, they are kind of useless unless you only use one strobe, you might as well just use a speed light, those are more powerful anyway haha


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[mweintraub]

Ha, define art.

Meh. I shoot because I like it. I'm trying to make a side "business" from it mainly shooting film. Mostly because I enjoy it and hope others do also. The ultimate promotion of film would be to have people hire me just for that. When/if that takes off, more/better gear will come flowing my way.

Oh yeah, You're not really a photographer if you don't shot 4x5 or larger. or so I heard.

 

[StoneNYC]

Ha, define art.

Meh. I shoot because I like it. I'm trying to make a side "business" from it mainly shooting film. Mostly because I enjoy it and hope others do also. The ultimate promotion of film would be to have people hire me just for that. When/if that takes off, more/better gear will come flowing my way.

Oh yeah, You're not really a photographer if you don't shot 4x5 or larger. or so I heard.

Haha some would say shooting 4x5 is a tiny format and that I'm not really approaching a pro level until I start shooting 20x24 8x10 is for advanced amateurs

If you didn't order special sheet film in the Ilford ULF run you are a nobody hahahahaa


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[MattKing]

Originally Posted by MattKing (there was a url link here which no longer exists)
What I meant, is that the question is made more complicated because it is harder to test whether the system is functioning properly.

If a wireless transmitter fires the flash at the wrong time with a focal plane shutter, the entire frame won't be illuminated - this is easy to see in a test exposure.

Whereas if a wireless transmitter fires the flash at the wrong time with a leaf shutter, the entire frame may very well be illuminated, but the exposure may be less, because of the shutter not being at its maximum opening. That is harder to verify in a test exposure.



Couldn't you do the white wall test? Shoot a white wall at a high speed (little ambient light) and see if there is light "fall off".


There won't be light fall off. The light transmitted by the leaf shutter will be even, it is just that due to the nature of a leaf shutter, it will perform in a manner similar to a second aperture. If the shutter isn't fully open when the flash fires, the shutter may effectively stop down the lens further than the set, normal aperture.

 

[analoguey]

Fair enough, but some only go to up 1/250 or 1/125. It's always good to over shoot with wireless sync speeds because the fastest they sync will drop based on interference, battery voltage, etc.

The RB/RZs go up to 1/400, right?

True, they do, but the off camera flash that I haven't doesn't put put enough for me to be able to use that speed.
And the Nikons max at 200 or thereabouts anyways.


Very interesting discussion this has spawned, though!

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