MF a dying breed?

[Alan Johnson]

At the time it was suggested to be dying, 2003, it was picked up by former 35mm shooters who were slightly surprised they could get this "Professional" gear at affordable prices.
In my case I have worked through several Mamiya 645, Pentax and Mamiya RB 67, Rolleiflex and Bronica SQA , I know a trader who then buys from me at reasonable discount.
Now I am mostly back to 35mm again but the good condition MF gear is still out there and since prices did not change much ,people must be buying it and using it still.

 

[TooManyShots]

Anyway...film is still relevant because it is a completely different experience and a different format. The price for a good 35mm or medium format film system isn't expensive...unless you have Leica or Hasselblad in mind. Certain medium format systems may be getting more expensive because they are getting sacred now. You can spend as little as $40 for a good 35mm body, Nikon or Canon.

Yes, true....consumer D SLRs are less popular now because many people take photos with their smart phones. Many would have no clues how to use a D SLR other than shooting in the P mode. So, a D SLR format is only for people who know what to photograph and how to photograph.

 

[flavio81]

I got a real chuckle out of reading back through this thread and seeing a reference to a digital back for 8x10. Digital has pretty much topped out at ersatz medium format (aka slightly bigger than 35mm full frame).

Excellent description of the current digital "medium format. "

However, with how the prices of the sensors are going down and down and down (take a look at the new Pentax full frame (24x36) DSLR for example), we're getting close to at least getting a true 6x4.5 digital sensor.

And then the prices of used medium format lenses, the ones that we currently use for film (as God intended this to be) will go up once they start using it on MF DSLRs. So start collecting now.

You read it first here in APUG!!

PS: I don't care either for those sensors, as long as film is available i'll be happy.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

Excellent description of the current digital "medium format. "

However, with how the prices of the sensors are going down and down and down (take a look at the new Pentax full frame (24x36) DSLR for example), we're getting close to at least getting a true 6x4.5 digital sensor.

And then the prices of used medium format lenses, the ones that we currently use for film (as God intended this to be) will go up once they start using it on MF DSLRs. So start collecting now.

You read it first here in APUG!!

PS: I don't care either for those sensors, as long as film is available i'll be happy.

To a point- the problem becomes with the manual focus lenses that they don't necessarily focus accurately on their own- you have to use focus peeking in order to get it right, at which point the inconvenience will chase off a lot of users accustomed to auto-everything. But they are so radically cheaper than their autofocus optimized-for-digital brethren they may draw a lot of people to them anyway.

 

[Moopheus]

Now I am mostly back to 35mm again but the good condition MF gear is still out there and since prices did not change much ,people must be buying it and using it still.

Yes, we are not just whistling past the graveyard, but robbing the graves as we go by.

 

[mweintraub]

Maybe it's because i shoot more MF gear, but I think MF is having a comeback due to the low prices.

 

[TooManyShots]

Excellent description of the current digital "medium format. "

However, with how the prices of the sensors are going down and down and down (take a look at the new Pentax full frame (24x36) DSLR for example), we're getting close to at least getting a true 6x4.5 digital sensor.

And then the prices of used medium format lenses, the ones that we currently use for film (as God intended this to be) will go up once they start using it on MF DSLRs. So start collecting now.

You read it first here in APUG!!

PS: I don't care either for those sensors, as long as film is available i'll be happy.

Price is going down??? You mean the Pentax offering? The problems with the D medium format system is that the ISO range is very limited. Burst speed is slow. Its applications is very limited. With $7k to $8k budget, you can get yourself a nice D4 or D5 with spare change for some nice lens too. So, if you want to experience the medium format system, you have to shoot film, period. Maybe getting a body in which you can buy a digital back for it.

 

[TooManyShots]

Maybe it's because i shoot more MF gear, but I think MF is having a comeback due to the low prices.

Low price....?? Depends.

 

[mweintraub]

Low price....?? Depends.

Janurary 1999 issue of Pop Photo shows B&H selling the RZ67 for $2999 (Pro II, 110mm, 120 back). Checkout the prices now.

Source: https://books.google.com/books?id=kVZwSLnlmvQC&lpg=PA194&dq=rz67&pg=PA142#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

[NJH]

I bought into the Bronica equipment but something I have seen is certain lenses being priced surprisingly highly here in the UK. The 1:1 macros for example.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Pro MF SLR gear is at incredibly low prices compared to what it originally was. Great time to buy. But certain specific lenses might still be in such high repute, combined with relative scarcity, that they still command top dollar. And of course we're talking about film cameras. Why wouldn't we? This kind of gear was typically build to last for decades, and 120 film is abundant and affordable. Who needs a digital back that costs as much
as a car and will be obsolete faster than an ice cream cone melts in Death Valley?

 

[Luckless]

Price is going down??? You mean the Pentax offering? The problems with the D medium format system is that the ISO range is very limited. Burst speed is slow. Its applications is very limited. With $7k to $8k budget, you can get yourself a nice D4 or D5 with spare change for some nice lens too. So, if you want to experience the medium format system, you have to shoot film, period. Maybe getting a body in which you can buy a digital back for it.

Are you thinking about the newer Pentax 645Z for a $7-8k budget? The 645D can be had used for far less than that, and it a not remotely terrible camera if it fits the work you're looking to do. I've really been considering getting a Pentax 645 body and lenses, with the possibility of snagging one of their digital systems down the road as well simply because I could so easily share the glass between the film and digital bodies. Sadly I've found that I tend to lean toward a 6x6 as my preferred medium format option.

 

[flavio81]

Price is going down??? You mean the Pentax offering? The problems with the D medium format system is that the ISO range is very limited. Burst speed is slow. Its applications is very limited. With $7k to $8k budget, you can get yourself a nice D4 or D5 with spare change for some nice lens too. So, if you want to experience the medium format system, you have to shoot film, period. Maybe getting a body in which you can buy a digital back for it.

I was referring to the Pentax k-1. Full frame (35mm) sensors are going down in price dramatically.

 

[Alan Gales]

Pro MF SLR gear is at incredibly low prices compared to what it originally was. Great time to buy. But certain specific lenses might still be in such high repute, combined with relative scarcity, that they still command top dollar. And of course we're talking about film cameras. Why wouldn't we? This kind of gear was typically build to last for decades, and 120 film is abundant and affordable. Who needs a digital back that costs as much
as a car and will be obsolete faster than an ice cream cone melts in Death Valley?

I agree with you, Drew, with the exception of Pentax 645 FA lenses. I picked up a 400mm FA off Ebay for $400. I held on to it for 2-3 years until a year after the Pentax 645D was released. I sold the lens for over $1200 and the new owner was thrilled to get it. I guess $1200 was a drop in the bucket after paying $10,000 for the 645D camera.

Pentax 645 FA lenses are still expensive. I'd look at Mamiya today if I wanted 645 autofocus.

 

[Moopheus]

Janurary 1999 issue of Pop Photo shows B&H selling the RZ67 for $2999 (Pro II, 110mm, 120 back). Checkout the prices now.

Sure, but when those cameras are out of production and used ones sell for cheap, that's not the sign of healthy, growing demand.

 

[mweintraub]

Sure, but when those cameras are out of production and used ones sell for cheap, that's not the sign of healthy, growing demand.

If they are in demand, prices go back up, but it's great that they are affordable that the common people can get them now.

 

[Luckless]

Given the volume of medium format cameras that have been produced in the last century, and how many of those are still perfectly serviceable, I don't think there is really much to the point of whether or not new high end cameras are being made or sold. There is also the point that many of us don't even WANT a new high end camera for much of what we do. I personally want interesting mechanical designs, which ideally don't need batteries or anything.

A far better indication of how the medium format market is doing is sales of film. I've bought one medium format camera, but have already made multiple orders to buy more film, and plan to continue doing so. Might pick up another lens or two for my MF camera, but I really don't have much desire to buy more cameras. A 6x9 or something might tempt me if I find one for a decent price, but I'm far more likely to pick up a large format for different projects.

And yes the low price for the quality of the gear, even if heavily used, was a major factor in my decision to get into MF photography.

 

[Sal Santamaura]

I got a real chuckle out of reading back through this thread and seeing a reference to a digital back for 8x10. Digital has pretty much topped out at ersatz medium format (aka slightly bigger than 35mm full frame).

http://www.largesense.com/​

 

[DREW WILEY]

Pricing of bodies and lenses goes in waves. Whenever a seismic wave of competing technology hits, like the "latest and greatest" DLSR's and suitable
tilt/shift lenses a few years ago, then a lot of pros sold off their MF film gear. Around the same time, certain big dealers dumped new inventory, particularly Mamiya SLR's, at bargain pricing. So you had a glut on the market. That slowly whittled down, though 645 items still seem abundant and
cheap. I use the P67 system, and took advantage of exceptional pricing on a couple lenses, though the lens I really coveted was apparently what a
number of other people desperately wanted - the 300EDIF lens, which was almost unobtainable. But due to all this format and digi switchout activity, a few really nice examples did show up on the market and I grabbed one, even though the price held high. A similar scarce late lens is the 75/2.8, which also briefly reappeared; but most of those have now been snatched up. Large format lenses are analogous. You can get lots of real bargains;
but certain lenses of "cult" repute (deserved or not), along with exceptionally ergonomic (lightweight, compact) lenses are selling for more than ever.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

http://www.largesense.com/​

Sal- that may as well be vaporware, and it's producing resolution on a par with a 2006-ish DSLR. And unlike a Betterlight scanning back, the 4x5 back still requires a much larger camera to be used. While I'm sure the ultimate image quality is vastly superior to the quality of a 2006-ish DSLR, there's an awful lot of inconveniences to it. And even they admit themselves that most of their product offerings are hypothetical. Not exactly what I'd call a market player.

 

[DREW WILEY]

"Large format" digi backs aren't. That is, most of them aren't large format to begin with, but do offer significant workflow solutions in production studios and certain other commercial applications. If you want to real deal, it's still large format film. But in many respects, even medium format film
is ahead in the qualitative game. For instance, it takes a helluva lot of work to attempt a highly nuanced and subtly toned inkjet print that even attempts to mimic routine darkroom output. People do get good at it; but rarely does it hit the bulls-eye.

 

[Chadinko]

Given the volume of medium format cameras that have been produced in the last century, and how many of those are still perfectly serviceable, I don't think there is really much to the point of whether or not new high end cameras are being made or sold. There is also the point that many of us don't even WANT a new high end camera for much of what we do. I personally want interesting mechanical designs, which ideally don't need batteries or anything.

A far better indication of how the medium format market is doing is sales of film. I've bought one medium format camera, but have already made multiple orders to buy more film, and plan to continue doing so. Might pick up another lens or two for my MF camera, but I really don't have much desire to buy more cameras. A 6x9 or something might tempt me if I find one for a decent price, but I'm far more likely to pick up a large format for different projects.

And yes the low price for the quality of the gear, even if heavily used, was a major factor in my decision to get into MF photography.

Beautifully said. I have everything from 110 to 4x5 and the cameras I reach for most often are my MF SLRs. I buy film in bulk as well, though I don't get to shoot as much as I'd like to.

I'm not interested in a NEW film camera either. I'm sure the new ones are nice enough but I shoot digitally for my professional work and while they give me great results, personally I prefer the feel of an old camera in my hand. I'm just not interested in all the high-tech unnecessary geegaws that clutter up the menus on digital cameras and get in the way of the true creative process. There is just something comforting about the feel of a fully-mechanical workhorse, and an incredibly satisfying KERCHUNK when the shutter trips. And to your point of an interesting mechanical design -- that's a huge part of the draw for me as well. Interesting and rare cameras are, well, interesting and rare, and it's a whole bucket of fun to walk around shooting with something that nobody's ever seen before. Great conversation starters and I have made quite a few friends from discussions that started with weird old cameras, although some of the old stuff tends to be a little too fiddly for my taste and they sit on my shelf as weird, cool dust-collectors.

I've also been responsible for corrupting more than one youth by introducing them to film photography and darkroom work; my daughter, who turns 20 this year, doesn't even carry her digital camera around with her, preferring instead her 35mm film bodies loaded with black and white (Proverbs 22:6).

I love this site because there are so many people devoted to using the old stuff, and that makes me happy.

 

[frank]

I feel the same about motorcycles. I would not trade my 35 year old bmw for a new one.

 

[mweintraub]

.....
I've also been responsible for corrupting more than one youth by introducing them to film photography and darkroom work; my daughter, who turns 20 this year, doesn't even carry her digital camera around with her, preferring instead her 35mm film bodies loaded with black and white (Proverbs 22:6).
......

Don't you mean (Proverbs 24:36)

This gives me some ideas for new vinyl decals to make!

 

[Alan Gales]

I've also been responsible for corrupting more than one youth by introducing them to film photography and darkroom work; my daughter, who turns 20 this year, doesn't even carry her digital camera around with her, preferring instead her 35mm film bodies loaded with black and white (Proverbs 22:6).

I love this site because there are so many people devoted to using the old stuff, and that makes me happy.

My daughter, Samantha, owns an I-Phone which she carries with her all the time. She will take pictures with it on occasion because it is with her. When she goes out to take photographs she takes her 35mm OM-1. Sam shoots both color and b&w but prefers b&w. She just recently asked me if she could have one of my Stereo Realist cameras since I have two. Of course I said yes. Sam has also expressed interest in learning to shoot my 8x10 when she can find the time. We just moved her to Rolla, Mo. to study electrical and computer engineering so she is pretty busy.