metol vs phenidone

[titrisol]

I was looking at several 2 bath formulas in Barry Thorton's website and I'd like to try one or 2 of those.
I wanted to start with divided D-23/DD-23 Dead Link Removed (kodak's formula and modified)

My main concern is that I have phenidone at home, but not metol.

Can I replace phenidone for metol? If so what is the equivalent in weights from one to the other?

 

[juan]

In Pyrocat HD, 2.5g of metol replaces .2g of phenidone - or 25g metol replaces 2g phenidone. Based on that, I mixed some Pyrotriethanolamine, which calls for 18g of metol, with 2g of phenidone. My scales only measure whole grams - not fractions. The developer works fine. I'd guess you'd be close using the 2g=25g calculation.
juan

 

[Tom Hoskinson]

I was looking at several 2 bath formulas in Barry Thorton's website and I'd like to try one or 2 of those.
I wanted to start with divided D-23/DD-23 Dead Link Removed (kodak's formula and modified)

My main concern is that I have phenidone at home, but not metol.

Can I replace phenidone for metol? If so what is the equivalent in weights from one to the other?

Yes you can, with some caveats about activity and interactions with other reducing agents in the formulation. By itself, phenidone is a very slow working developer. It is most often used in combination with other reducing agents; Hydroquinone and Pyrocatechol are examples, Ascorbic acid, Ascorbate and Isoascorbate are others.

One part phenidone is approximately equal to 8 - 10 parts Metol. Look at DIVIDED D-76 DEVELOPER - DD-76 - VARIATIONS VI-X in the reference you posted.

 

[titrisol]

I saw the PD-76 as they call it.
has anyone used D23 and DD-76? coments on those?

 

[Tom Hoskinson]

I saw the PD-76 as they call it.
has anyone used D23 and DD-76? coments on those?

I have used both - plus several other variations. I quickly switched to Beutler's high acutance 1 shot developer and then Rodinal. The only divided developer I currently use (and only for about 5% of my film) is a home brewed Diafine substitute.

 

[titrisol]

So far I have used only Diafine as Divivded-Dev, as a matter of fact I have my Diafine periods (4-6 months of using anything in Diafine)

So I guess I'll keep working with it.

 

[gainer]

I have used a mixture of phenidone, hydroquinone and sulfite which does pretty much what D-23 does but better. Try:

0.1 g phenidone
at least 8 g hydroquinone
100 g sodium sulfite
water to 1 liter.

The phenidone will activate only a certain amount of hydroquinone. Adding more than that amount of hydroquinone has little effect on activity but increases capacity and resistance to aerial oxidation. I have used this concoction as the first bath of a 2 bath just as I would have used D-23. I could not see any appreciable difference in the H&D curves, but you may. As a single bath developer, the capacity is 8 or more rolls or 8X10 sheets/ liter without replenishment.

 

[gainer]

I forgot to say that phenidone keeps a long time when it is dissolved in propylene glycol in the ratio of 1 or 2 grams/ 100 ml. You will have to heat the mixture to dissolve the phenidone, which goes against tradition, but that's mostly what I do, isn't it? The solution makes it easier to measure very small amounts of phenidone.

 

[Tom Hoskinson]

I have used a mixture of phenidone, hydroquinone and sulfite which does pretty much what D-23 does but better. Try:

0.1 g phenidone
at least 8 g hydroquinone
100 g sodium sulfite
water to 1 liter.

The phenidone will activate only a certain amount of hydroquinone. Adding more than that amount of hydroquinone has little effect on activity but increases capacity and resistance to aerial oxidation. I have used this concoction as the first bath of a 2 bath just as I would have used D-23. I could not see any appreciable difference in the H&D curves, but you may. As a single bath developer, the capacity is 8 or more rolls or 8X10 sheets/ liter without replenishment.

Hey Pat, that recipe gets fairly close to the A bath recipe in the home-brew Diafine substitute.

 

[titrisol]

Yes Patrick, thanks to your advice I made a 2% solution in PG
Heated the PG in the conventional oven.

 

[gainer]

Hey Pat, that recipe gets fairly close to the A bath recipe in the home-brew Diafine substitute.

I used that formula in the 70's for some of my favorite pictures of guest artists of the Norfolk Symphony, now known as the Virginia Symphony. I would take them at dress rehearsals during breaks or long rests in the oboe part. I developed and printed them that evening and gave copies to the guest at the concert the next day. I got my copies autographed, of course. I tried Diafine, FG-7, D-76, Acutol and FR-something or other, among others, but I settled on this one. Stage lighting can be difficult, even at symphony rehearsals. This one seemed to hold the shadows without washing out the highlights.