? Metol + Sodium Sulfite + Glycin + Hydroquinone + TEA + Acetone, etc

[Denis R]

perhaps someone can expalain how and why everything works together :confused:
haven't found anything similar
it seems as if the inventor Isaac Ortezky used a little bit of everything within his reach
Metol + Sodium Sulfite + Glycin + Hydroquinone + TEA + Acetone + Sodium Bisulfite + Sodium carbonate + [ DHMO ]

this seems to be quite the additive developer recipe
refer to patent 2757091 for details, it's only one page

the plan is to test this brew with delta 400 pushed to 3200 before developing fp5+ {f5.6 1/60} and t-max 400 {f5.6 1/30} to 3200 (poor gym lighting for basketball game)

if it turns out nice, may become another regular, along with D-76 1:1

 

[df cardwell]

Back in the day, lots of folks tried 'kitchen sink' design to squeeze better performance from the materials.
This is pretty typical of the technique, and I wonder how it performed in comparison to D-76. It isn't UNLIKE many of the developers cooked up in the '30s.

There are dates in the patents from 1954 to 1956, and he cited Super XX, a film obsoleted by photojournalists who simply pushed Plus X in D-76 ! Then came Tri X, and the Super XX in 35mm era was over.

I'd guess you'll get unworkable contrast, and an EI lower than D-76 or Xtol. But for goodness sake, try it if you've made it up, and share the results.

 

[Trask]

I noticed that acetone was involved. The only other developer that I've used that includes acetone is Mr. Bishop's developer, as follows:
"Start out with 28 ounces of water at 68ºF. Add one ounce of acetone at room temperature. It raises the water temperature to 70ºF. Do not use paint thinner; it must be a fine-grade acetone. I use U.S.P. (Pharmaceutical grade), but it doesn't have to be that good. Then I add sodium sulfite---you have to be careful, that's F-I-T-E --- there's a sulfate and a sulfide. I use 30 grains of sodium sulfite. For those who don't want to bother with scales, that's a good rounded quarter-teaspoon --- I still weigh mine out. Add 20 grains of Elon or Metol --- they are both the same thing. I stir well and that's all. The important thing here to remember is agitation. During the first 30 seconds, agitation is continuous. Not a rapid shaking, but about two inversions every 5 seconds. Then it becomes critical to leave the tank alone, let it sit for 1 minute. Then give it 5 more seconds --- about two or three inversions --- each minute thereafter. I haven't put any alkali in this developer, so you don't need an acid shortstop. I use a plain water shortstop at 70ºF. Then fix."

In metric units by my calculation the Paul Bishop formula is:
Water....................965.5 ml
Acetone...................34.5 ml
Sodium sulfite...........2.24gm
Metol......................1.5 gm

I've also tried adding some Potassium Bromide to retard fogging. I get fine grain, but you do need to agitate or extend time to boost contrast. I intend to try this developer for some Technical Pan I'm shooting.

 

[Alan Johnson]

www.freepatentsonline.com/2757091.pdf
Using 1 grain= 0.0648gram, 1 US gallon = 3.785 liters I get this (g=gram):
Metol......................4.38g
Sodium Sulfite..........6.16g
Sodium Bisulfite........0.137g
Hydroquinone...........3.7g
Glycin.....................0.257g
Sodium Carbonate.....4.38g
Acetone..................9.86g
Triethanolamine........9.86g
Water to...............1000ml

Compare with the Beutler developer:
Metol.......................1.0g
Sodium Sulfite............5.0g
Sodium Carbonate anh.5.0g
Water to...............1000ml
It has more metol and hydroquinone to make up for the probably lower pH.
I am inclined to think the acetone and TEA are mysticism,borax would do to make the same pH.

 

[Denis R]

observed errors

Sodium Bisulfite........4g
Glycin.....................7.5g
these two are the only ones to have a consistant g for grams

Sodium Sulfite..........180g
only in the summary is it listed as 180 gr for grains

alan, your values are about 50% less than mine
all my values were entered into excel, formula applied =H2/15.28

in process of adding more developers to chart, no speculated values, only data from patents, exclusive of "name"

trying to sort out the recipe before mixing dev.

 

[Alan Johnson]

Example calculation:
Metol (Elon) 128 grains x0.0648 = 8.29 grams
Water 1/2 US gallon = 1.89 L
Hence metol = 8.29/1.89 = 4.38 grams/liter
I had not noticed that some tables use g and gr.
My calculated values for sulfite,bisulfite and glycin are probly wrong,sorry.

 

[Denis R]

'tis the fun

when working with these little known dev, trying to figure out what it can do as well as mixing can be a challenge

my only real question upon further pondering is the amount of
Sodium Sulfite..........180g
only in the summary is it listed as 180 gr for grains
180/15.28=11.78
11.78 grams makes more sense

in other formulas, is it more common to have 180 grains or 180 grams of sulfite??
to make 1/2 gallon

I see that dividing by 15.28 or multiplying by 0.0648 of grains gives grams

 

[rx7speed]

what is the point of the acetone though? I've heard of a couple people using that with film/paper but can't seem to fidn a reason as to why other then some saying to use it with paper to help make a lithable developer.

 

[keithwms]

Just a wild guess but I suppose acetone acts simply as a solvent.... perhaps to cut the overall viscosity and assist mixing.

 

[gainer]

It runs in what is left of my mind that acetone and sulfite in water form hydroxide. You could test that by adding acetone to a solution of sodium sulfite and bisulfite with indicator.

 

[neelin]

I think Pat's forgotten more than most of us will every know!

Did someone say acetone...I just tried some (failed):

Inspired by 1924 (1976 edition) Wall & Jordan "Photographic Facts and Formulas"
I tried Tylenol/Sulfite/Acetone & GreenTea/Sulfite/Acetone


Pyro-Acetone (Lumiere) Developer

W&J"With pyro and some other developers (phenolic) the usual alkalis can be replaced by acetone (CH3CO.CH3), which aids in the dissociation of the sodium sulfite into sodium bisulfite and caustic soda, thereby providing the necessary alkali. It is used for plates, but should not be used for films because the acetone may attack the plastic film base."

I had previously tested pure acetone on modern film (C41 to try to remove uncoupled dyes after b/w processing) to leave only the orange mask & the silver. It appeared to do nothing bad to the film or gelatin, and didn't remove anything.

The original published formula is:

Solution A
100g Pyrogallol
200g Sodium Sulfite
1l water

Potassium metabisulfite must not be used, nor must acid be added. For use mix:

8 parts solution A
8 parts acetone
100 parts water

The addition of glycerin to pyro tend to give softer negatives.

**bear in mind that this formula is directed glass plates.