Metol based FX-39 replacement

[River Mantis]

I've accidentally got a 1kg jar of Metol. What kind of film developer can I make with it (not counting other ingredients) if my developers of choice are FX-39 and Rodinal? Beutler's maybe?

 

[Augustus Caesar]

How old i

I've accidentally got a 1kg jar of Metol. What kind of film developer can I make with it (not counting other ingredients) if my developers of choice are FX-39 and Rodinal? Beutler's maybe?

How old is the Metol?

 

[Christiaan Phleger]

D-23 comes first to mind, I used to alternate between FX-1 (Beutlers), Rodinal, and D-23, in 35mm.
D-23 is crazy flexible, and for where I was using it 83.5 F was my standard developing temperature, used at 1:3. To me it seemed that single developer agents formulas were easier to 'visualize' and control with the higher processing temps and shorter development times.

You'll use up more of the Metol with D-23 than with FX-1, ha.

I aenjoyed FX-1 with a very sharp Leica 135mm at F/11, with a variety of medium speed films, Tmax 100, Plus-X, old AGFA APX 100 and 25. It was these combinations that let me to embracing a medium light tripod AND cable release with the Leica and that 135mm for truly astoundingly sharp negatives. Anything less and I knew I was compromising on sharpness.

 

[River Mantis]

How old i


How old is the Metol?

There is no expiration date on the jar. It was probably prepackaged at some point. I suspect it's decades old. I haven't open it yet to at least check the color

 

[River Mantis]

D-23 comes first to mind, I used to alternate between FX-1 (Beutlers), Rodinal, and D-23, in 35mm.
D-23 is crazy flexible, and for where I was using it 83.5 F was my standard developing temperature, used at 1:3. To me it seemed that single developer agents formulas were easier to 'visualize' and control with the higher processing temps and shorter development times.

You'll use up more of the Metol with D-23 than with FX-1, ha.

I aenjoyed FX-1 with a very sharp Leica 135mm at F/11, with a variety of medium speed films, Tmax 100, Plus-X, old AGFA APX 100 and 25. It was these combinations that let me to embracing a medium light tripod AND cable release with the Leica and that 135mm for truly astoundingly sharp negatives. Anything less and I knew I was compromising on sharpness.

FX-1 recepie asks for a small amount of potassium iodide. It's literally homeopathic which is very suspicious.

 

[Augustus Caesar]

There is no expiration date on the jar. It was probably prepackaged at some point. I suspect it's decades old. I haven't open it yet to at least check the color

Looks like 1970-1980s typography. Has it been opened?

 

[River Mantis]

Looks like 1970-1980s typography. Has it been opened?

Probably not, the jar is full. The lid wasn't especially tight though. The powder looks warm grey.

 

[Don_ih]

The powder looks warm grey.

It's looking not-great but possibly fine. A kg of metol would last nigh on forever. It took my 6 years to use 100 grams, constantly mixing my own film and paper developer.

 

[Anon Ymous]

Probably not, the jar is full. The lid wasn't especially tight though. The powder looks warm grey.

Mine looks a bit darker and works fine.

 

[snusmumriken]

That's a LOT of metol! If it is still active, you could start a lab.

You might consider Barry Thornton's 2-bath developer, but at 6.2g metol to develop maybe twenty 35mm rolls, it is very economical. You have enough metol to develop about 3,000 rolls in this way. You may want a more profligate recipe!

 

[Rudeofus]

You could also take a look at Ryuji Suzuki's DS-12, his sharpness enhancing dev for slow films. It may be a good substitute for Rodinal.

The biggest bother you will have with Metol is that it is unsuitable for liquid concentrates. You'll always have to mix fresh.

 

[snusmumriken]

The biggest bother you will have with Metol is that it is unsuitable for liquid concentrates. You'll always have to mix fresh.

Not so for a 2-bath developer where the metol is largely kept separate from the alkali. Keeps for months like that.

[Is everyone else cursing the spell-checker that changes 'metol' to 'metal' as you type?]

 

[Anon Ymous]

Not so for a 2-bath developer where the metol is largely kept separate from the alkali. Keeps for months like that.

D76 also keeps for months and is a single solution. Actually, I've had some that was probably 2 years old and developed film without any problems (full bottle, tightly capped).

 

[relistan]

Kalogen is metol-based and is supposed to be Rodinal-like. Gerald Koch used and liked it. https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/kalogen-formula.103711/#post-1370676

 

[John Wiegerink]

Kalogen is metol-based and is supposed to be Rodinal-like. Gerald Koch used and liked it. https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/kalogen-formula.103711/#post-1370676

Karl,
Kalogen is a very good developer to have on the shelf. I like it better than Rodinal myself. I still have the bottle from 2016 that I talk about in your added link. The last time I used it, it was still working as good as new. I'm surprised more people haven't tried Kalogen. Much easier to make up than homemade Rodinal.

 

[River Mantis]

Karl,
Kalogen is a very good developer to have on the shelf. I like it better than Rodinal myself. I still have the bottle from 2016 that I talk about in your added link. The last time I used it, it was still working as good as new. I'm surprised more people haven't tried Kalogen. Much easier to make up than homemade Rodinal.

Also there is a recipe I found in a Russian book from 70s

It's called simply "Metol-based acutance developer No 1"

• Water (30-45ºC) — 1l
• Metol — 0.86g
• Sodium sulfite anhydrous — 2.52g
• Sodium or potassium hydroxide — to pH = 10.1

Dissolve lye in a small amount of cold water then slowly add it to the main solution stirring vigorously.

 

[Rudeofus]

According to L. F. A. Mason's "The Role of Phenidone in Modern Processing" (published in 1965 in "The Journal of Photographic Science") there are poorly soluble 1:1 complexes between Metol and HQ at low pH. These same 1:1 complexes also exist with Phenidone, but they don't matter, since Phenidone amount is typically low even in developer concentrates.

All this does not contradict the developer concentrates you all brought up, since all these formulas run at low concentration and rather high pH. While there are good use cases for such developers, the most popular developers run at low pH and typically give much finer grain. This is where Phenidone&friends truly shine.

 

[snusmumriken]

Also there is a recipe I found in a Russian book from 70s View attachment 353320
It's called simply "Metol-based acutance developer No 1"

• Water (30-45ºC) — 1l
• Metol — 0.86g
• Sodium sulfite anhydrous — 2.52g
• Sodium or potassium hydroxide — to pH = 10.1

Dissolve lye in a small amount of cold water then slowly add it to the main solution stirring vigorously.

What sort of development time would this require? 0.86g/litre is ten or more times more dilute than many other metol developers, so presumably we'd be looking at something approaching an hour?

 

[Dustin McAmera]

It's a Russian book, remember:

1. Разбейте лед в резервуаре для проявки.
2. Поместите пленку.
3. Соответствовать пятилетнему плану развития.

 

[Alan Johnson]

Metolal will use up 40 grams right away:

Rodinal-like developer from Metol

Mix 40 grams of Metol with 15 grams of sodium sulfite in 1 liter of water. Add 19 grams of sodium hydroxide. Filter, saving the contents of the filter paper. That which passes through the filter is mostly sodium sulfite and sodium sulfate. That...

www.photrio.com

It contains an excess of hydroxide that makes it give large grain.
It does not appear to be as resistant to oxidation as Rodinal.

 

[River Mantis]

What sort of development time would this require? 0.86g/litre is ten or more times more dilute than many other metol developers, so presumably we'd be looking at something approaching an hour?

Well, FX-1 for comparison contains 5g of Metol per litre of concentrate which gets diluted ten times so you'll get 0.5g per litre.

 

[MattKing]

[Is everyone else cursing the spell-checker that changes 'metol' to 'metal' as you type?]

Does your spell-checker permit you to add "metol" to its dictionary? If so, that may assist.
I do that with all the "correct" Canadian spellings of words

 

[snusmumriken]

Does your spell-checker permit you to add "metol" to its dictionary? If so, that may assist.
I do that with all the "correct" Canadian spellings of words

Thanks, Matt. To be honest, I naively imagined that when on Photrio the spell-checker was a feature of the site. Wasn't thinking straight, clearly.

I know how to add words to the dictionary in Windows, but the last couple of years I've been on an iMac and have been unable to fathom out that aspect (yet). I've tried Ctrl-Click as Apple suggest, but 'Add to dictionary' is not a displayed option. I've turned the spell-checker off globally following this conversation.

 

[snusmumriken]

Well, FX-1 for comparison contains 5g of Metol per litre of concentrate which gets diluted ten times so you'll get 0.5g per litre.

Good point; and actually on reflection I have no idea what concentration of metol exists in bath 2 of a two-bath formulation, because it's limited to what the emulsion can soak up and carry over.

 

[Doremus Scudder]

Just to be nit-picky: Metol is a trade name and should be capitalized (like Kleenex or Jello or whatever). That might help with the spell-check too.

Best,

D