Medium Format Film Cameras Still Being Manufactured?

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Jager

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There are so many cameras available and they are so cheap compared to 20 years ago. Whats your budget and whats your work plan?

Well, in 35mm I'm primarily a Leica shooter. I shoot an M-240 and Monochrom (along with a couple of film M's), with some very good Leica glass, including the Noctilux 0.95. I'm certainly not rich. But I realized a long time ago that buying an expensive piece of gear every few years is very doable even for us non-pro amateurs, if that's where your heart and your priorities lie. It helps that my kids are grown and out of the house, college expenses are over, and the mortgage is paid off.

All of which is to say, I don't really have a pre-determined budget. I'm not averse to paying good money for excellent gear. That said, eight grand plus for a new Rollieflex almost makes me faint. But if I were to be convinced that that TLR would be the end-all for my photography, I'd probably find a way to make it happen.

I definitely get that the medium format marketplace has shifted from pros to amateurs and that that is a blessing to those of us who do this purely out of love. Prices have plummeted. But I worry about two things when buying used. First is the possibility of being scammed or taken, particularly when you're buying online. I've never bought anything from Ebay for just that reason. The second is because, with cameras and lenses, we're talking about precision-made objects that may hide an abusive history, and which will probably deteriorate over time even if treated well. It's hard to know what you're getting. At the very least, an older camera would probably benefit from a CLA. Who does that in the medium format world? Most the brick and mortar camera shops I grew up around are long gone.

So there's my bias. I'm averse to risking serious money on a used camera unless its history is knowable (rare), or the seller is a reputable entity who is willing to unwind the deal should the sale prove a lemon. Risk a couple hundred on a Yashica TLR? Sure. But a couple thousand on a Hasselblad system? Not so much. I'd be breathless with worry.

I'd be happy to entertain suggestions on how to deal with my anxiety!

My work plan? Well, I love digital (don't shoot me!). That Leica Monochrom renders exceptional images. But I'll tell you what... a couple weeks ago I had the task of printing off a 16x20 baryta print for a gallery exhibition in a few weeks. It's a nice image - taken with that very Leica Monochrom - and an excellent print, using a split-toned Piezography K7 pigment inkset on very nice archival paper. As I slid it into its sleeve, preparatory to driving it around to my framing shop, my eyes came to rest upon the very large, dark brown envelope that has stood between my desk and my printer stand for well over a dozen years. It was the only print from another photographer I have ever bought. But I had never had it framed. Pulling it out, I carried the envelope out onto the deck and carefully blew away the years of dust. Back inside, I carefully undid the tabs, and then slowly withdrew the print from the envelope.

It took my breath away.

22" x 26" matted, with an actual image area 13" x 17." Silver gelatin. Taken by a photographer named Dave Beckerman in NYC with a large format camera. On film, of course.

The print just simply glows, with a tonal depth you think you could almost step into. I was stunned.

I've always loved film. I still carry two boxes of long-expired film - one of Kodachrome 64, one of Delta 3200 - in the console of my pickup truck. Not because I'll ever use them. But because it just makes me feel good when I glance down and see them. Remembering how it once was.

But loving something and embracing it aren't always the same. Like so many others, for many years now I have fallen under the siren song of digital. It is just so much easier.

It took the infinite grays in that Beckerman print to remind me. As good as digital is - and I remain one of its staunchest fans - maybe, just maybe, there will be some things it can never do quite as well.

And so, in the last couple of weeks, in addition to getting my print and the Beckerman print framed, I ordered fresh Tri-X and Xtol and HC-110 and fixer and hypo clear. Yesterday I stood in the kitchen and developed the first roll of film in a long time. I had forgotten what a kick that is. A little piece of Christmas when you unroll the film from the reel and see those images, made whole of a sudden, glistening in the wetness.

Maybe there really is magic.

I've enjoyed shooting my Leica M6. A lovely camera, and my first Leica. You take it out of the cabinet and put a roll of film in it and take it out to the truck and it feels like meeting up with your childhood best friend. But I already know I need more negative. Infinite is a lot. Large format may, indeed, lie in my future. I dunno. First, I want to see how far medium format can take me.

So there's the not-very-good short answer to what my plan is. So rough it hardly deserves to be called a plan. Just... looking for infinite.

The Bessa III came. Nice camera. But it's probably going back. The one quick lesson it leaves, though, is that that 6x7 negative, hanging from the clip, drying, is a honking nice piece of real estate.

I'm partial to rangefinders. Would love to find a new-old-stock Mamiya 7ii with an 80. Or, failing that, at least one in mint condition. Any ideas what I could expect to pay for that?

The other thing I'd like to try in medium format is a waist-level viewfinder setup with a leaf shutter. I guess the TLR's, including that awfully expensive Rollieflex, fit that spec?

And though they don't have that leaf shutter, I'm still looking around at the RB's, RZ's, and Hasselblads.
 
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Sirius Glass

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Well, in 35mm I'm primarily a Leica shooter. I shoot an M-240 and Monochrom (along with a couple of film M's), with some very good Leica glass, including the Noctilux 0.95. I'm certainly not rich. But I realized a long time ago that buying an expensive piece of gear every few years is very doable even for us non-pro amateurs, if that's where your heart and your priorities lie. It helps that my kids are grown and out of the house, college expenses are over, and the mortgage is paid off.

All of which is to say, I don't really have a pre-determined budget. I'm not averse to paying good money for excellent gear. That said, eight grand plus for a new Rollieflex almost makes me faint. But if I were to be convinced that that TLR would be the end-all for my photography, I'd probably find a way to make it happen.

I definitely get that the medium format marketplace has shifted from pros to amateurs and that that is a blessing to those of us who do this purely out of love. Prices have plummeted. But I worry about two things when buying used. First is the possibility of being scammed or taken, particularly when you're buying online. I've never bought anything from Ebay for just that reason. The second is because, with cameras and lenses, we're talking about precision-made objects that may hide an abusive history, and which will probably deteriorate over time even if treated well. It's hard to know what you're getting. At the very least, an older camera would probably benefit from a CLA. Who does that in the medium format world? Most the brick and mortar camera shops I grew up around are long gone.

So there's my bias. I'm averse to risking serious money on a used camera unless its history is knowable (rare), or the seller is a reputable entity who is willing to unwind the deal should the sale prove a lemon. Risk a couple hundred on a Yashica TLR? Sure. But a couple thousand on a Hasselblad system? Not so much. I'd be breathless with worry.

I'd be happy to entertain suggestions on how to deal with my anxiety!

My work plan? Well, I love digital (don't shoot me!). That Leica Monochrom renders exceptional images. But I'll tell you what... a couple weeks ago I had the task of printing off a 16x20 baryta print for a gallery exhibition in a few weeks. It's a nice image - taken with that very Leica Monochrom - and an excellent print, using a split-toned Piezography K7 pigment inkset on very nice archival paper. As I slid it into its sleeve, preparatory to driving it around to my framing shop, my eyes came to rest upon the very large, dark brown envelope that has stood between my desk and my printer stand for well over a dozen years. It was the only print from another photographer I have ever bought. But I had never had it framed. Pulling it out, I carried the envelope out onto the deck and carefully blew away the years of dust. Back inside, I carefully undid the tabs, and then slowly withdrew the print from the envelope.

It took my breath away.

22" x 26" matted, with an actual image area 13" x 17." Silver gelatin. Taken by a photographer named Dave Beckerman in NYC with a large format camera. On film, of course.

The print just simply glows, with a tonal depth you think you could almost step into. I was stunned.

I've always loved film. I still carry two boxes of long-expired film - one of Kodachrome 64, one of Delta 3200 - in the console of my pickup truck. Not because I'll ever use them. But because it just makes me feel good when I glance down and see them. Remembering how it once was.

But loving something and embracing it aren't always the same. Like so many others, for many years now I have fallen under the siren song of digital. It is just so much easier.

It took the infinite grays in that Beckerman print to remind me. As good as digital is - and I remain one of its staunchest fans - maybe, just maybe, there will be some things it can never do quite as well.

And so, in the last couple of weeks, in addition to getting my print and the Beckerman print framed, I ordered fresh Tri-X and Xtol and HC-110 and fixer and hypo clear. Yesterday I stood in the kitchen and developed the first roll of film in a long time. I had forgotten what a kick that is. A little piece of Christmas when you unroll the film from the reel and see those images, made whole of a sudden, glistening in the wetness.

Maybe there really is magic.

I've enjoyed shooting my Leica M6. A lovely camera, and my first Leica. You take it out of the cabinet and put a roll of film in it and take it out to the truck and it feels like meeting up with your childhood best friend. But I already know I need more negative. Infinite is a lot. Large format may, indeed, lie in my future. I dunno. First, I want to see how far medium format can take me.

So there's the not-very-good short answer to what my plan is. So rough it hardly deserves to be called a plan. Just... looking for infinite.

The Bessa III came. Nice camera. But it's probably going back. The one quick lesson it leaves, though, is that that 6x7 negative, hanging from the clip, drying, is a honking nice piece of real estate.

I'm partial to rangefinders. Would love to find a new-old-stock Mamiya 7ii with an 80. Or, failing that, at least one in mint condition. Any ideas what I could expect to pay for that?

The other thing I'd like to try in medium format is a waist-level viewfinder setup with a leaf shutter. I guess the TLR's, including that awfully expensive Rollieflex, fit that spec?

And though they don't have that leaf shutter, I'm still looking around at the RB's, RZ's, and Hasselblads.

Well said. Thank you.
 
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It is just so much easier.

Therein lies the problem. Not so bad when the phrase initially describes only some resulting improvements to one's workflow. Much, much worse when over time it insidiously morphs into an outlook. Then inexorably sets and cures into a long-term mindset.

Ever taken a hammer to epoxy? Not a pretty sight...

:wink:

Ken
 

MattKing

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Your concern about being scammed would most likely be dealt with by dealing with KEH, and establishing a relationship with a good repair tech.
 

Sirius Glass

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Worried about returns on eBay?

That is one of many reasons that I buy from KEH.
 

trythis

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Have you checked out JapanCameraHunter.com
Bellamy, the guy that runs the site, will hunt down and buy for you whatever you want and will back up the sale. I havent bought gear from him, so I am just going on his reputation, but you should at least check out the site, his What's in Your bag series is fun.
 

Roger Cole

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KEH is great. I've also had good luck buying on the forums, here and the Large Format Photography Forum. The Classifieds over there have medium format and 35 gear as well. Buy from well known sellers with a forum history and you are pretty safe.

But really, considering what I gave for, say, my 645 Pro outfit (which was and is in fine shape) I could have bought three or maybe four of them to find a good one before spending as much as new would have cost if it were even available. I've since bought additional backs, inserts and two lenses from KEH - all perfect. I would have been hard pressed to tell the lenses from new.

I did but a beautiful Yashicamat 124 from a fellow on the LFPF that turned out to have grown a crop of lens fungus since he'd checked it. He was shocked at the photos I sent him, apologized profusely, and refunded both the purchase price and all my shipping charges. I wouldn't hesitate to buy from him again. I then bought another on eBay and have been using it for a few years now. A bit riskier but it turned out fine and in any case I risked less than $150 on it. Love that little TLR!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk and 100% recycled electrons - because I care.
 

jacaquarie

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KEH

Everything I have purchased from KEH has been exceptional. Will suggest you look at what you want a KEH, and just go for it! Prices are appropriate for what they offer. I have found KEH to be exceptional in how equipment is rated and in the willingness to resolve any issues.
Another vote for KEH
 
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Jager

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Thank you, gentlemen. You've been very helpful. I'll keep your advice in mind. And, in particular, I'll keep an eye on KEH. Sean McCreery there has already been very helpful.

After souping three rolls - two of Tri-X and one of Acros - through the Bessa III, I've decided to keep that camera. It's very different from anything else I've ever handled, but it definitely has its strengths. And I love the images.

That notwithstanding, I'm still interested in a Mamiya 7ii. Can I get your considered opinion on what a new-in-box 7ii should sell for? How about a new-in-box 80/f4 lens for that camera? I'm not sure how something remains "new" several years after it no longer is made, less it sits on some dealer's shelf or the cabinet of some collector, but I'm told they are, indeed, new.

Thanks...
 
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I'm not sure how something remains "new" several years after it no longer is made, less it sits on some dealer's shelf or the cabinet of some collector, but I'm told they are, indeed, new.

Essentially, that's it. It sat unsold on a store shelf. Then when the store went out of business, it sat unopened in the public storage unit the inventory was moved to. Then when the storage was auctioned off after the death of the retired store owner, it got bought sight unseen by a bidder, who then ran to eBay and posted a NOS/NIB auction. Or something similar...

I recently purchased a NOS/NIB Majestic tripod head for my Calumet C1 8x10 camera. The original purchasing company went out of business in 1983. The box had been labeled "Extra". Probably the second one of two purchased, it was likely a never-used back-up. The person I bought it from got it from an estate yard sale.

It's a discontinued model that is exactly what I needed and had been looking for. There's not a scratch on it. The originally brushed-on grease from the factory was still in the gear teeth. It had never even been cranked once. It waited decades for me to need it, then come along and make itself available for me to buy it.

Ken
 

horacekenneth

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Sirius Glass

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The APUG discussion about the factory being sold. (there was a url link here which no longer exists)
 

RattyMouse

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Sounds like the company behind Rollei, DHW Fototechnik I think, is going out of business and auctioning off their camera manufacturing equipment. http://petapixel.com/2015/03/13/rolleiflex-factory-to-be-liquidated-at-auction-heres-a-look-inside/

Not sure if it applies just to the Rolleiflex's or the Rollei SLRs as well.

So what does that leave...the Fuji GF670W and Alpa cameras? Besides LF adapters and toy cameras?

I doubt that the Fuji GF670W is still in production. I'd bet that it was a limited run camera just like the GF670. The price for the GF670W is much higher and would probably slow its sales, allowing for the production run to remain in stock longer.
 
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Arca Swiss 6x9, Linhof 6x9, Ebony 6x9, Cambo, Plaubel, Horseman, Gottschalt, Silvestri, Gaoersi and Dayi cameras are still in production. The first 8 brands are kind of expensive, the last two are relatively cheap.
 

amellice

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The RZ67 is officially discontinued, although you can still find it new online. Likewise for the 7II, although I'd just as soon get an original 7 (which I did three years ago).

There's no way I could work with anything smaller than 6x6 at this point. You can get a similar aspect ratio to 6x4.5 with a 6x9 camera, and a much bigger negative along with it.

which one you can find online and where? The only new one that usually pop is the Pro II D
 
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Jager

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Well, I for one have fallen truly down the rabbit hole.

The Bessa and its 6x7 negatives was (and is) exciting. But what really has snared me was the Hasselblad 500 C/M. What a sublime experience shooting with that camera is!

Now I have gone and sold all my little-used Nikon gear and purchased an Imacon Flextight X1. All so I can eke everything I can from those lovely medium format negatives.

The irony is not lost on me that even as medium format gear continues to diminish itself (i.e. Rollieflex), I have grabbed onto its tail and have no intention of letting go...
 

RattyMouse

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Well, I for one have fallen truly down the rabbit hole.

The Bessa and its 6x7 negatives was (and is) exciting. But what really has snared me was the Hasselblad 500 C/M. What a sublime experience shooting with that camera is!

Now I have gone and sold all my little-used Nikon gear and purchased an Imacon Flextight X1. All so I can eke everything I can from those lovely medium format negatives.

The irony is not lost on me that even as medium format gear continues to diminish itself (i.e. Rollieflex), I have grabbed onto its tail and have no intention of letting go...

How much was the Imacon?
 

shutterlight

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Well, I for one have fallen truly down the rabbit hole.

The Bessa and its 6x7 negatives was (and is) exciting. But what really has snared me was the Hasselblad 500 C/M. What a sublime experience shooting with that camera is!

Now I have gone and sold all my little-used Nikon gear and purchased an Imacon Flextight X1. All so I can eke everything I can from those lovely medium format negatives.

The irony is not lost on me that even as medium format gear continues to diminish itself (i.e. Rollieflex), I have grabbed onto its tail and have no intention of letting go...

Congrats! Let me know if you'd like a basic guide as to how to best use an X1. I'm really fortunate that I got away with having a few of my best pictures from my early days of using it, because I didn't know what I was doing. Most of my scans from those days are junk.
 
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Jager

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Jager

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Congrats! Let me know if you'd like a basic guide as to how to best use an X1. I'm really fortunate that I got away with having a few of my best pictures from my early days of using it, because I didn't know what I was doing. Most of my scans from those days are junk.

Hi Shutterlight,

I'd appreciate any tips or advice you might have on using the Imacon. It arrives today and I am very excited!

I'm fairly conversant with scanning, in general, having owned a couple of Epson flatbeds, a Nikon Coolscan 5000, and my present machine - a Nikon Coolscan 9000. The 9000 is actually a pretty nice scanner for medium format. It's challenges are its fiddly film holders and dearth of software to drive it. I use Vuescan, but am put off by several bugs, including lack of auto frame recognition and the preview area (marching ants) not exactly matching the scan area.

The X1 and FlexColor are reputed to be much more solid in terms of operation, interface, and output.

Best,

Jeff
 

RattyMouse

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baachitraka

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I may shoot with film and print them on paper for 10 years from now, for that money.
 
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Jager

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Alas, although I know I am out of step with most of the esteemed members here - and I say that in all fond seriousness - I have absolutely no space in my small, humble abode for a darkroom. I develop my film in the kitchen.

For me, shooting film inevitably means having to scan.
 

RattyMouse

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Alas, although I know I am out of step with most of the esteemed members here - and I say that in all fond seriousness - I have absolutely no space in my small, humble abode for a darkroom. I develop my film in the kitchen.

For me, shooting film inevitably means having to scan.

If you have that kind of coin for a scanner, more power to you. I have a HUGE apartment and *still* can't print because I simply can't make any room dark. Every room has massive windows that let in enormous amount of light. 3 floors of living space and no dark room! :mad::cry:
 
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