Mechanical jewel, which one? Nikon F2, F, FM2 etc or No Nikon?

2F/2F · Aug 23, 2011

stark_674 said:
Hi all,

I want to buy another camera.... Again the Last one.....
I want to buy a strong reliable camera to take shoot with for many and many time.
My choice is going to Nikon F2A (with DP-11) and not F2AS (with DP-12) cause the first uses needle and not leds.
I want to shoot with a rellay mechanical jewel, can you give me any other suggestion?
My budget is 300€ max, Every suggestion is welcome.
Thanks in advance

Denny

Nikon F is my favorite, and the camera plus a few lenses should be within your budget.

BillBingham2 · Aug 23, 2011

If you are sticking with SLRs then go F2a. If you are going to get a rangefinder some day then SL, SL2, or FTn.

If you get the F then go Nikon rangefinder like the S2, S3, or SP. If you want a Leica rangefinder ( e.g.M2, M6) go with either of the SLs.

The OM single digits are almost as strong and fine cameras but not as strong as a F, F2, SL, or SL2. Not a bad third place though.

B2

BrianL · Aug 23, 2011

Why not build on the Exacta since you already have a start? Or, since you have the Contax, pick up the FX-3 or FX-3 Super as again you already have an investment in the lenses. Or, since you have some M42 lenses you really like, why not get a body that can mount them directly such as an Asahi/Pentax? One problem with buying SLRs of varying make is you end up duplicating too many accessories and lenses rather than having the depth in on system to make it truly universal.

Maybe I am a simple person but years ago I decided I hated duplication where ever possible and settled on as a main system a Bronica ETRs that I could use both as MF and 35mm. I dumped everything else for the most part in trade. Having 5 lenses I can use on either my MF or 35mm camera system really saved a bundle. Yes, since I've added a Leica but I could afford it as I'd stayed clear of having multiple systems. I've found the key to systems is rationalization. Now, to put away my soap box.

morrishilarian · Aug 23, 2011

Nikon FM2n. Awesome camera!

Les Sarile · Aug 23, 2011

BrianL said:
I've found the key to systems is rationalization. Now, to put away my soap box.

Now why did no one bring this up before :confused:

Rol_Lei Nut · Aug 24, 2011

stark_674 said:
BUT, Now I want to have the possibility to shot only using a needle at maximum on a camera that may be full mechanical. I read that F2 was produced using something like 1500 pieces, 600 more than a F. They tried to produce the execellence on mechanical technology, and maybe this is what I am seraching for.

The various F2 models are the same body (or essentially, so, some small tweaks may have been introduced over the years), with the prism determining the model.

If you are really after the "execellence on mechanical technology", I can only repeat my Leicaflex SL reccomendation. It really is a step above the F2 and the F.
The SL2 is even more of a mechanical marvel, but would be over budget.
As pointed out, lenses will usually be more expensive than Nikon ones, though not as much as legend has it.

Re Spotmatic: lovely camera, but viewfinder is a bit dark. Also, if you change lenses often, screw mount is a PITA.

Also, depending on which lenses you're using on your Contax and Rolleiflex, you might find Nikon lenses to be a step down, though if you choose very wisely, that can be minimized. Unfortunately Rolleiflex's mechanical SLRs (SL-35 and SL-35M) are neither jewels nor tanks. While not a mechanical jewel by any means,your SL-35E is actually a very sweet camera - as long as it keeps working. I use mine a lot!

fstop · Aug 24, 2011

Rol_Lei Nut said:
The various F2 models are the same body (or essentially, so, some small tweaks may have been introduced over the years), with the prism determining the model.

If you are really after the "execellence on mechanical technology", I can only repeat my Leicaflex SL reccomendation. It really is a step above the F2 and the F.
The SL2 is even more of a mechanical marvel, but would be over budget.
As pointed out, lenses will usually be more expensive than Nikon ones, though not as much as legend has it.

Re Spotmatic: lovely camera, but viewfinder is a bit dark. Also, if you change lenses often, screw mount is a PITA.

Also, depending on which lenses you're using on your Contax and Rolleiflex, you might find Nikon lenses to be a step down, though if you choose very wisely, that can be minimized. Unfortunately Rolleiflex's mechanical SLRs (SL-35 and SL-35M) are neither jewels nor tanks. While not a mechanical jewel by any means,your SL-35E is actually a very sweet camera - as long as it keeps working. I use mine a lot!

An EX+ condition F2 will be over budget, one with a non metered DE-1 is about 5 times the SL2.
FM2 is probably the best choice

erikg · Aug 24, 2011

The OP wanted a needle display, no LEDs, so if that still holds the FM2 is out.

cmo · Aug 24, 2011

A Nikon F plus a few lenses within a budget of $300?

Where do you get that?

A working mechanic Nikon on a budget - did someone say "Nikkormat"? They are really cheap these days, and they are great cameras.

Pumalite · Aug 24, 2011

BillBingham2 · Aug 24, 2011

As I was not the first....

Nikkormat FT3, should like a rock and takes modern batteries.

A black body FT3 and three Nikkor lenses (28/2.8 AIs, 85/1.8 AIed, 300/4.5 ED/IF) is my favorite SLR kit.

Almost as solid as an F/F2.

B2

B2

fstop · Aug 24, 2011

cmo said:
A Nikon F plus a few lenses within a budget of $300?

Where do you get that?

A working mechanic Nikon on a budget - did someone say "Nikkormat"? They are really cheap these days, and they are great cameras.

One of the F/FTNs I got came with a 50mm 1.4 and case easy EX and works. Shutter speeds are close enough.Less than $100 off ebay and got 200mm in the case for under $75 wides are out there too.

The OP wanted a needle display, no LEDs, so if that still holds the FM2 is out.

That rules out the good F2's also.

CGW · Aug 24, 2011

The strictly mechanical requirement really boxes the OP in, limiting them to elderly, expensive models, most of them due for pricey overhauls. I've happily shot many FE/FM variants with no breakdowns of any kind. They're solid, plentiful and cheap even in EX+ condition. No weird battery issues, either. Many have remarkably few miles on them.

Pumalite · Aug 24, 2011

I suspect that if the OP wants an F2; he will get one. I would.

Rol_Lei Nut · Aug 25, 2011

Some of the cameras mentioned in this thread were designed to use banned mercury cells for their meters (F, Spotmatic, Leicaflexes).

However, that is no problems at all.
There are various solutions.

1) Just put in a modern alkaline or silver cell, using a rubber O-ring or a wad of aluminium foil to make it fit. Some cameras, like the Spotmatic, use meter circuits which are relatively insensitive to voltage variation, so even an alkaline cell, which changes its voltage over its life, will still give accurate results. Other cameras vary in their reaction to using the "wrong" voltage, but in most cases the result will still be accurate enough for most uses using negative film.
Using a silver cell instead and compensating the meter reading, or re-adjusting the meter (very easy to do on a Photomic), readings can be spot-on.

2) Use a silver cell (LR44) with an adapter containing a diode (CRIS is the best known brand, but many others, including DIY, exist).
No compensation or re-adjustment needed. The adapter isn't super-cheap, but use is very easy (it's what I use).

3) Use a Wein cell. Relatively expensive and short life, but no fiddling involved.

4) Use a hearing aid battery. Basically a cheap Wein cell, but needs rubber O-ring or wad of alu foil to fit. Very cheap when bought in bulk.

Very simple really...

The "battery issue" is only such for nay-saying armchair experts, but is certainly not an important factor for choosing a body in real life.

CGW · Aug 25, 2011

The "battery issue" is only such for nay-saying armchair experts, but is certainly not an important factor for choosing a body in real life.

Except that it can, and often does, compromise the usefulness and function of an old camera whose metering accuracy can be iffy, at best. The workarounds involve a degree of wishful thinking and inconvenience that really defeats their purpose. If you want to shoot a relic and to skip futzing around the Wein cells, hearing aid batteries and converters that don't always fit, just get a handheld meter. That's the best "real life" suggestion--unless, of course, sitting in your armchair watching a meter needle twitch, matters more.

steven_e007 · Aug 25, 2011

I don't know if this helps, but...

I work in industry on optical equipment. One particular application needed a 35mm camera to record images. I say needed, past tense, as the requirement is now satisfied with digital image capture. But for about 12 years the job was done using Nikon F3s.

The equipment we are talking about is worth serious money, so the cost of a 35mm camera body, ANY body, was relatively negligible. The only requirement was reliability. Many cameras were tried before deciding on the F3 - and it proved bomb proof. Some cameras had dozens of films put through them every working day for years on end without any trouble. I know some people have said the earlier bodies are more reliable because of the lack of electronics - this strictly breaks the OPs 'Mechanical' requirement - but I simply can't remember ever having a fault on any of these Nikon F3 cameras. Occasionally the winders screwed up - but only after very large numbers of operations or a few times because some numpty tried to force a plug into the wrong socket and bent the gold pins...

In some ways they had an easy life. They had no batteries to leak (we used external power supplies), they were never moved or had lenses or finders fitted or removed - always sat stationary in the same temperature and humidity. Pictorial photographers' cameras have a much harder time of it, but even so, for reliability of continual operation I always found the F3 very impressive.

stark_674 · Aug 25, 2011

Hi all,
I saw that this question involve may persons to give suggestions, and I am happy about this cause I solve some doubts I had.
Finally, today I agree to buy an F2A camera with DP-11 finder, in used conditions but perfectly working, no seals problems and with reliable speeds at 160 Euros( 200$ maybe...) including the shipment costs.
This camera has a 50mm F2 Nikon lens.
I really dont know so much about Nikon Nikkor AI AIS etc lenses, but I hope that this base configuration, can satisfy me.
Is it possible to use M42 lenses in Nikon system?
Which are the lenses at moderate prices good to buy for this camera?

I start with this F2 and I will buy an SL2 in the future (of course what you wrote on this forum is conditionning me on this BUT lenses cost a lot) and a Nikon F too.

cmo · Aug 25, 2011

CGW said:
The "battery issue" is only such for nay-saying armchair experts, but is certainly not an important factor for choosing a body in real life.

Except that it can, and often does, compromise the usefulness and function of an old camera whose metering accuracy can be iffy, at best. The workarounds involve a degree of wishful thinking and inconvenience that really defeats their purpose. If you want to shoot a relic and to skip futzing around the Wein cells, hearing aid batteries and converters that don't always fit, just get a handheld meter. That's the best "real life" suggestion--unless, of course, sitting in your armchair watching a meter needle twitch, matters more.

There are good and bad solutions for the battery issue. If you use a proper adapter or get the lightmeter adapted to a different voltage there is no battery issue any more. Wein cells and hearing aid batteries are only the second best choice IMHO.

Rol_Lei Nut · Aug 25, 2011

CGW said:
The "battery issue" is only such for nay-saying armchair experts, but is certainly not an important factor for choosing a body in real life.

Except that it can, and often does, compromise the usefulness and function of an old camera whose metering accuracy can be iffy, at best. The workarounds involve a degree of wishful thinking and inconvenience that really defeats their purpose. If you want to shoot a relic and to skip futzing around the Wein cells, hearing aid batteries and converters that don't always fit, just get a handheld meter. That's the best "real life" suggestion--unless, of course, sitting in your armchair watching a meter needle twitch, matters more.

If air cells are used, or a silver cell with adapter, or a silver cell with an adjusted or compensated meter, why on earth should the metering be "iffy, at best."?!!?

I use/used several cameras and meters made for mercury cells with non-mercury cells and in no case is the metering "iffy, at best"!

No "wistful thinking" or "futzing around", unless you consider taking a piece of aluminium foil, rollling it into a loose ball and inserting it between the battery and the battery compartment cover to be rocket science. I'm talking about alu foil as a spacer and contact, not as a magic hat!

Have you actually used such a set-up? Talking real life here...

Rol_Lei Nut · Aug 25, 2011

stark_674 said:
Is it possible to use M42 lenses in Nikon system?
Which are the lenses at moderate prices good to buy for this camera?

I start with this F2 and I will buy an SL2 in the future (of course what you wrote on this forum is conditionning me on this BUT lenses cost a lot) and a Nikon F too.

First of all, congratulations on your wise future buying intentions...

Nikon probably has the longest lens register of all, which means you can't use other lenses on them unless you use an adapter containing an optical element (yuk!)

Some AI lenses which are generally considered good:
20 2.8, 24 2.8, 35 2.0, 55 2.8, 105 2.5, 180 2.8, 200 4.0 (one of Nikon's less appreciated jewels), 400 5.6.

Many others too, depending on different needs and tastes.

CGW · Aug 25, 2011

Rol_Lei Nut said:
If air cells are used, or a silver cell with adapter, or a silver cell with an adjusted or compensated meter, why on earth should the metering be "iffy, at best."?!!?

I use/used several cameras and meters made for mercury cells with non-mercury cells and in no case is the metering "iffy, at best"!

No "wistful thinking" or "futzing around", unless you consider taking a piece of aluminium foil, rollling it into a loose ball and inserting it between the battery and the battery compartment cover to be rocket science. I'm talking about alu foil as a spacer and contact, not as a magic hat!

Have you actually used such a set-up? Talking real life here...

Working meters aren't necessarily accurate meters. Sorry but I get no sense of moral superiority using old stuff that may or not deliver depending on Mickey Mouse hacks and short-lived zinc-air batteries. There are just too many newer cameras available that sidestep these problems altogether. Same goes for antique handheld light meters.

Michel Hardy-Vallée · Aug 25, 2011

A Nikon is a tank, a jewel would be more a Contax IIa.

That said, I sometimes lust for a silver plain prism Nikon F.

paulfish4570 · Aug 25, 2011

you chose well, grasshopper. i much enjoy the F2a and 50/2 i got in may. the lens is very, very capable. my most recent apug gallery shots were made with this kit ...

fstop · Aug 25, 2011

CGW said:
Working meters aren't necessarily accurate meters. Sorry but I get no sense of moral superiority using old stuff that may or not deliver depending on Mickey Mouse hacks and short-lived zinc-air batteries. There are just too many newer cameras available that sidestep these problems altogether. Same goes for antique handheld light meters.

Thats why F2's are bringing so much more money than Fs.

No battery issues.

Mechanical jewel, which one? Nikon F2, F, FM2 etc or No Nikon?

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