Mechanical Engineering Photographer?

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benjiboy

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[QUOTI'm sensing a trend of a lot of people confusing the word 'engineer' with the word 'mechanic'.
One sits in an office on a computer designing things, the other fixes it when it breaks...E][/QUOTE]

So your'e telling me Dr.that although I was an Incorporated Engineer with the qualification IEng MI Mech E from the Institute of Mechanical Engineers ( a body started by George Stevenson ) that because I used to get my hands dirty I was just "a mechanic " ?
 

Jim Jones

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Yes. Let me clarify that a desk engineer is one who has spent his career at his desk and never really had a hobby or interest that allows him to take gear outdoors and discover how the real world affects the equipment.

Former military, tinkerers, and rednecks make great engineers. They've had experience repairing equipment that's failed in the field.

That's the key. Field experience. Any ME can and should do finite element analysis. It's just easier to trust the results and designs of those with field experience.

Yes, indeed. The Wright brothers had to practically invent aeronautical engineering before they could invent the first successful airplane. Henry Ford had the advantage of working as a mechanic, not an engineer. So did John M. Browning, one of America's most successful designers. Thomas Edison wasn't schooled as an engineer. The best engineers are born, not made in schools. Schools can certify engineers, but they can't make a mink coat out of a horse's behind.

My career as a Navy electronics repairman revealed engineering errors which us lowly technicians had to redesign in the field. Some of those blunders cost many thousands of dollars to correct. Sometimes we had to improvise. Once we had an estimate for $1000 to build a rhombic antenna, far over our budget. Instead, we scrounged wire and a few other minor components, spent $.75 on two 35 foot long bamboo poles, and erected a 1000' long wire antenna that worked well enough. As they say, there's the right way, the wrong way, and the Navy way.
 

Dr Croubie

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So your'e telling me Dr.that although I was an Incorporated Engineer with the qualification IEng MI Mech E from the Institute of Mechanical Engineers ( a body started by George Stevenson ) that because I used to get my hands dirty I was just "a mechanic " ?

No, I'm taking exception with those who seem to think that word 'engineer' has something to do with the word 'train driver', which is a pet peeve of mine. I probably should have used that instead of the word 'mechanic', sorry.

I also love to get my hands dirty, although being an electronic engineer that's in a different way to mechanical engineers. It's a good day when I can't get the solder flux smell out of my nose.
I could solder when I was 8 years old. At least, 'desolder', ask my mum, she had to buy a new coffee machine when I couldn't get it back together again.
By the time I was at uni, I could solder 0.4mm pitch SOIC ICs without a microscope using a soldering-iron tip that I filed down needle-sharp.
It was those skills that got me my first jobs, reworking boards with anything down to 0402-sized components.

And it was also around that time that my university course included a lesson on how to solder, for the EEE students. In fricking 3rd-year. 18 months before we graduate and they finally decide to teach an electronic engineer how to use possibly the most useful tool of their profession.
Even worse, it wasn't even in Practical Electronic Design III (or II). In there we just used breadboards (like I'd started using 15 years before that). No, this was in a freaking Project Management course.
Don't get me started on how graduates don't have any real-world skills (although it seems I have), I was complaining about them (and especially the quality of the courses) while I was at uni the first time.

But also, I just worked for 3 years in something called an 'engineering department', that was the biggest joke ever.
My judgement is rather clouded by a colleague who made my life hell for those 3 years, but still, there was nothing 'engineering' about that place. Certainly not the job description, nor the pay scales, nor the attitudes of the colleagues.
They didn't follow standards, didn't even (seem to or want to) know about them, in one meeting after trying to convince them "if we don't follow this standard and still sell stuff we're possibly breaking the law", the responses I heard included "we don't have to follow the standard".
So glad I'm out of that place, for my own liability if nothing else (yes, I've got the paper-trail of reports I wrote proving that I tried to change stuff that at least covers my ass WTSHTF).
But to be fair, there were a few very good sparkies who were there. I actually said straight out to one of them, "why aren't you an engineer, you act like one", after he was doing a quick risk assessment of something before he started on it, none of the rest of the people there (especially not in the so-called 'engineering' department) knew what that even meant.

But I digress. In short, some of those technical-level people should have stayed where they belonged in the manufacturing section, they certainly didn't deserve the title of 'engineer'.
But on the other hand, some of the best "engineers" that I've worked with had no qualifications whatsoever beyond experience. I supervised a team of 10 repair technicians in europe (MBO/HBO-level for dutch people), and two of my best guys there weren't even that, they were Ham-radio enthusiasts who knew their way around a PCB.
To me, engineering is more about attitude and behaviour than what the piece of paper says.
 

Oxleyroad

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Dr I was waiting for your humbled response :wink:
 

Dr Croubie

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Actually, I thought that was my procrastination and slightly ranty response. :tongue:
They changed all the due dates on me for my PM course, so after my submission yesterday, instead of the next one being next Sunday it's now on Thursday, and Tues/Wed are 9-5 lectures. Then the third is next Sun.
So I should actually start writing something.

On the plus side, I've just taught myself LaTeX and BibTeX, including how to write .bst style files.
 
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Truzi

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No, I'm taking exception with those who seem to think that word 'engineer' has something to do with the word 'train driver', which is a pet peeve of mine. I probably should have used that instead of the word 'mechanic', sorry.

I think I've gotten the wrong impression on this site. All this time I thought PE drove one of these:

kp8.jpg


(From here)

Sorry, couldn't resist :smile:
 
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lxdude

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:laugh::laugh::laugh::D
 

benjiboy

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I come from a pre-computer generation when mechanical engineering calculations were usually done in the office on a slide rule, and physical ones by getting your hands covered with oil and filth on the shop floor.
 
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sleepOhh

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I come from a pre-computer generation when mechanical engineering calculations were usually done in the office on a slide rule, and physical ones by getting your hands covered with oil and filth on the shop floor.
So how does this look in today's generation? I'm sure there is far less computing by hand...
 

Nodda Duma

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Rough estimates are done by hand, say if you were in the field or at a meeting. ME's still go down to the shop floor to check on the status of critical parts assuming your company still has a machine shop.

For more detailed analysis such as, say, determining the minimum I.D. of a lens barrel so that the max OD lens doesn't get stressed (interference fit, or "crash") at coldest required temperature due to difference in thermal expansion, the mechanical engineer I work with set up an excel spreadsheet that he can enter in pertinent values to get the answer. He's done that for several common problems. That's his modern slide rule. Other guys use Matlab and write scripts. They're all based on the same math that slide rules used. I've done both for my common optical problems.

So I'd say the slide rule replacement has been Matlab and Excel. Some might use a programmable calculator but I've never seen a Mech Eng geek out that much. Measurements are done on the CAD model with inspections performed on the prototypes. Ergonomics are checked with rapid prototype models. Real fit form function done with actual prototypes (which are very close to the end product after all that modeling, unless there's Requirements Creep). Show and tells to management and customer done with the rapid prototype models and the actual prototypes: You still have to bring hardware to the table.
 

Dr Croubie

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Meanwhile, this.
 

GRHazelton

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Interesting thread. My father had a PhD in Chem E from U of Michigan, and wide experience in industry and teaching. He felt that the future of engineering schools was problematical since new grads in ChemE, and probably other engineering fields, could command high enough salaries to discourage graduate studies. He got his PhD during the Great Depression, BTW. While he was an early adopter of computers he felt that using computer simulations, rather than the traditional pilot plants in engineering schools, was ill advised. For those unfamiliar with pilot plants they are small scale, that is only 2 or 3 stories high!, installations which replicate a commercial chemical plant in reduced scale. Needless to say these are expensive facilities! In his view simulations were only as good as their data, while "hands on" experience in a pilot plant was far more valuable for translation into "real world" situations.

I remember that during his industrial work he'd be away from home for several weeks at a time supervising the final construction and startup of a plant. Hard hat and dirty hands time! The sort of thing for which the traditional curriculum had well prepared him.

And he was a good photographer!
 

Sirius Glass

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Interesting thread. My father had a PhD in Chem E from U of Michigan, and wide experience in industry and teaching. He felt that the future of engineering schools was problematical since new grads in ChemE, and probably other engineering fields, could command high enough salaries to discourage graduate studies. He got his PhD during the Great Depression, BTW. While he was an early adopter of computers he felt that using computer simulations, rather than the traditional pilot plants in engineering schools, was ill advised. For those unfamiliar with pilot plants they are small scale, that is only 2 or 3 stories high!, installations which replicate a commercial chemical plant in reduced scale. Needless to say these are expensive facilities! In his view simulations were only as good as their data, while "hands on" experience in a pilot plant was far more valuable for translation into "real world" situations.

I remember that during his industrial work he'd be away from home for several weeks at a time supervising the final construction and startup of a plant. Hard hat and dirty hands time! The sort of thing for which the traditional curriculum had well prepared him.

And he was a good photographer!

As my generation of engineers retires there will be a major shortage of engineers in the US. With the recessions of 1969 to mid 1970s and then in the 1980s and especially in the 1990s the engineering enrollment dipped. It dipped enough in the 1990s for me to stop teach seniors and grad students in Electrical Engineering and Computer Science. With the coming engineer shortage the salaries will start to climb again.
 
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sleepOhh

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Rough estimates are done by hand, say if you were in the field or at a meeting. ME's still go down to the shop floor to check on the status of critical parts assuming your company still has a machine shop.

For more detailed analysis such as, say, determining the minimum I.D. of a lens barrel so that the max OD lens doesn't get stressed (interference fit, or "crash") at coldest required temperature due to difference in thermal expansion, the mechanical engineer I work with set up an excel spreadsheet that he can enter in pertinent values to get the answer. He's done that for several common problems. That's his modern slide rule. Other guys use Matlab and write scripts. They're all based on the same math that slide rules used. I've done both for my common optical problems.

So I'd say the slide rule replacement has been Matlab and Excel. Some might use a programmable calculator but I've never seen a Mech Eng geek out that much. Measurements are done on the CAD model with inspections performed on the prototypes. Ergonomics are checked with rapid prototype models. Real fit form function done with actual prototypes (which are very close to the end product after all that modeling, unless there's Requirements Creep). Show and tells to management and customer done with the rapid prototype models and the actual prototypes: You still have to bring hardware to the table.
Very interesting, I guess the math you learn in school helps you to apply it to other real life situations.

Is solidworks the CAD standard?
 

Dr Croubie

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Is solidworks the CAD standard?

Really depends on where you are, there are no standards around here.
Where I just worked we all used AutoCAD until 5 years ago, now electrical uses AutoCAD for panel layouts (until they eventually move to ePan8 Pro Panel) and mechanical designers use Inventor.
I did a contract for a place a few months ago, they use PTC Creo (and especially the Finite State Modelling plugin).
15 years ago when I started my BE, they'd been using AutoCAD until they got an academic deal on Solidworks (ie all the seats they needed and us students could have a license for use at home) for less than half what they'd been paying AutoCAD for fixed-seats-at-uni-only.

I'm using OpenSCAD at home. Because, you know, I like making things difficult for myself.
 

Sewin

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I stopped using Autocad for my small company years ago. Just way too expensive.

So I searced around for a similar cheaper or free software package which could be legally used for commercial use.

I came across Doublecad XT, now on vs 5 and find it does everything I need, it's virtually a clone of Autocad, can save and read DWG files, commands are similar to Autocad and can link directly with 3D Sketchup which is a big bonus.

I'm not on commission or have anything to do with Doublecad, but if you want to save some money and run a legal cad programme check it out.

Sewin.
 

Nodda Duma

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Very interesting, I guess the math you learn in school helps you to apply it to other real life situations.

Is solidworks the CAD standard?

Solidworks or Pro Engineer/Wildfire/PTC Creo whatever they're called now are the two I've seen.

Solidworks is easy to learn, but you can create a solid model incorrectly according to GD&T. It is more common.

Wildfire is a bit more non-intuitive and frustrating *at first*, because it will not allow you to create a model incorrectly according to ANSI 14.5Y.
 

alanrockwood

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I stopped using Autocad for my small company years ago. Just way too expensive.

So I searced around for a similar cheaper or free software package which could be legally used for commercial use.

I came across Doublecad XT, now on vs 5 and find it does everything I need, it's virtually a clone of Autocad, can save and read DWG files, commands are similar to Autocad and can link directly with 3D Sketchup which is a big bonus.

I'm not on commission or have anything to do with Doublecad, but if you want to save some money and run a legal cad programme check it out.

Sewin.

DraftSight is another free CAD program. It is supposed to be very good and highly compatible with Autocad. It is distributed by Dassault Systems, the same people who supply Solidworks, but of course Solidworks itself is not free.
 

Sewin

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DraftSight is another free CAD program. It is supposed to be very good and highly compatible with Autocad. It is distributed by Dassault Systems, the same people who supply Solidworks, but of course Solidworks itself is not free.


I've got Draftsight, it is probably slightly better than Doublecad,but mine will not plot without crashing.

Sewin
 

Steve Smith

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ProgeCAD is another good AutoCAD clone... in fact I think it does some things a bit better.

I've got Draftsight

Since changing over to Linux, I haven't been able to use ProgeCAD so I am going to try Draftsight as they offer a Linux version. If it works I will forgive their spelling of draught!

EDIT: Free for Windows amd Mac, not offered for Linux, Gggrrr!!!

Does anyone know of a free AutoCAD clone for Linux?


Steve.
 
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PeterB

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People always are so confused when I tell them I am an engineering student while holding a film camera.

Apologies for the late reply. I haven't had time to read many of the replies to this thread so excuse me if I repeat something somebody else has written.

As a qualified Electrical Engineer, Computer Scientist and Mathematician with 20 years of industry experience here is what I would tell them:

Engineers learn things from first principles. Analog film photography is foundational to properly understanding and conducting Digital photography. All digital systems are inherently analog in nature.

Oh, and tell them that your personal preference (which may have little to do with your technical persuasion), is simply that you prefer film.
 
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alanrockwood

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ProgeCAD is another good AutoCAD clone... in fact I think it does some things a bit better.



Since changing over to Linux, I haven't been able to use ProgeCAD so I am going to try Draftsight as they offer a Linux version. If it works I will forgive their spelling of draught!

EDIT: Free for Windows amd Mac, not offered for Linux, Gggrrr!!!

Does anyone know of a free AutoCAD clone for Linux?


Steve.

You might be able to get ProgeCAD or Draftsight to run under Linux if you use the WINE windows emulator. (If one is to be a stickler about these things, Wine Is Not an Emulator.)
 
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sleepOhh

sleepOhh

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Apologies for the late reply. I haven't had time to read many of the replies to this thread so excuse me if I repeat something somebody else has written.

As a qualified Electrical Engineer, Computer Scientist and Mathematician with 20 years of industry experience here is what I would tell them:

Engineers learn things from first principles. Analog film photography is foundational to properly understanding and conducting Digital photography. All digital systems are inherently analog in nature.

Oh, and tell them that your personal preference (which may have little to do with your technical persuasion), is simply that you prefer film.
Very good and concise response. I might use this next time! :smile:
 
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