MCC is back !

[kauffman v36]

in regards to my previous comment that MCC seems thinner than MGIV, yesterday i was using a new 25 pack of 8x10 MG Warmtone and it also felt thinner than MGIV. by thinner i dont mean worse, i actually like the way MGWT, MC110, and ADOX VT feel, but MGIV def. feels like a thicker, more robust paper.

 

[lloyd]

"That doesn't say much. I can easily feel a significant difference between MCC, K-888, and ADOX FP Vario Classic."

I recently had the opportunity to measure, after processsing, 12 different b/w papers currently available.

With a micrometer, the difference among papers was not more than .005 in.

I went back and looked at my notes and I stand corrected: the difference I meant to say was .0005, ie 1/2 of 1 thousandth, BUT that was a mistake--the difference is actually .001, ie 1 thousandth.

MCC at .0115, Vario at.0105. the .0105 represents the thinner of all the papers (several at this thickness) and the .0115 the thickest, tho a few papers are actually .01155 (Fotokemika and MGIV)

 

[clayne]

MCC at .0115, Vario at.0105. the .0105 represents the thinner of all the papers (several at this thickness) and the .0115 the thickest, tho a few papers are actually .01155 (Fotokemika and MGIV)

Wait a sec here. The Adox Fineprint VC I have in the darkroom right now is absolutely thicker than MCC. You don't even need a micrometer to feel this. I'm talking about this paper: http://www.freestylephoto.biz/12882...lassic-VC-FB-8x10-25-sheets-Glossy?cat_id=503

Granted, micrometers are pretty damn accurate, but something doesn't seem right to me here with these measurements.

 

[Ken N]

A new package of MCC 11x14 arrived Friday. I could swear that the paper is thinner than the previous month's batch. Also, the paper is cut the other direction. Instead of the short ends of the paper curling in, the longer sides now curl. I won't mention the 1/16 of a stop difference in sensitivity...

 

[lloyd]

"Granted, micrometers are pretty damn accurate, but something doesn't seem right to me here with these measurements."

What can I say? Measurements are just that, but I know what you mean---out of the box, Varycon felt miles thicker than any other paper, but
when measured the difference just wasn't that much. That said, we can obviously perceive .001 pretty easily in a feel test.

 

[Nicole]

Mirko, tolle nachrichten! Gibt es einen Haendler in Australien?

 

[clayne]

FYI: in case others haven't noticed yet - ADOX is now offering MCC in 5x7 25 sht packs through Freestyle.

Saves the hassle of cutting down larger sizes. I've already picked up a few packs myself.

 

[StigHagen]

Hi!

Can we expect a price drop on this paper sometime soon? Or more economical boxing? I feel it is expensive compared to other quality papers. Almost twice as expensive as Kentmere Fineprint FB and 30% more expensive than Ilford MGIV FB.

I've been comparing prices for 50 sheets 12x16" inch at ag-photographic.co.uk which have good prices for MCC.

 

[Ken N]

Well, I'm not happy about the price either, but it is so much better that I can justify it.

ken

 

[mikebarger]

I bought a 125 sheets twice, not again. I'm out of that market until we see it in 100 sheet boxes. Nice as it is, it's a form of price gouging.

There are other good B&W papers out there, without the small box premium.

My 2 cents.

Mike

 

[Curt]

Mike maybe they are following the Kodak model of a few sheets for a higher price. I prefer my 11x14 in 50 sheet boxes and 8x10 in 100 sheet boxes. Mike what would you consider to be the one top 'other' paper?

Thanks,
Curt

 

[mikebarger]

I didn't have a specific brand in mind, just know a lot of people use something other than MCC. I'll probably buy RC and look to freestyle, buy a couple brands, and give them a test run.

I have used Agfa papers and had an inventory gap before the revised paper came out. Used some Kodak RC IV I got off Ebay to fill that gap. That's not much of an option now.

Just doesn't feel right being poked with the small packages.

Mike

 

[benjiboy]

MCC is back ? Oh, printing paper, I thought at first you were referring to the Marylebone Cricket Club, which is a more common abbreviation of M.C.C. in the UK.

 

[Jerevan]

Dear Ol' Blighty is a wondrous isle, Ben, full of merry cricket gnomes.

 

[ADOX Fotoimpex]

The savings of a box of 100 sheets as opposed to 4 boxes of 25 sheets is exactly 1,90 EUR. Does anyone really care about this ?

All other price rebates which were present in the past were "political" rebates which were cut from the markup of the manufacturer.

Today there is no such markup left for the manufacturer which would enable us to continue this price model. We also can´t do anything if currencies suddenly drop like the UKP in 2009 or the USD recently.

It is a mystery to me how Ilford is getting along with this right now and for the time beeing we will be more expensive in certain markets.

We make a very small margin on our papers (less than 15%) and we will keep it that way. If we were acting in the "old style" we would also go bankrupt like Agfa, Forte and all the others.

Times are different now. Things are not like they were. Prices too.

Kind regards,

Mirko

 

[kb3lms]

It's good to see that kind of thinking! Make a fair profit and stay in the business because you want to and provide a quality product. That gives us all choices and keeps the medium alive. This is the sort of idea I was talking about in my Kodachrome post earlier today.

 

[Jerevan]

Mirko,

With a margin of less than 15% there is no place for old style extravaganzas. The hard reailty is that if you want something to be around, you have to buy it. Or as in your case, make it.

 

[Sal Santamaura]

Knowing the price of all things and the value of none...

...I'm out of that market until we see it in 100 sheet boxes...

Sure seems like cutting off one's nose to spite one's face. Especially given the "huge" potential savings Mirko explains in post #65!

 

[mikebarger]

Welp, it was too long anyway, and I'm sure it's not the only decent paper out there.

$9.00 times 6 boxes a year equals $54.00. $54.00 times five years equals $270 USD. Still not a lot, but some principle is involved.

Mike

 

[Roger Thoms]

100 sheet boxes of 8x10 would be nice, but I will certainly continue to buy the paper in the 25 sheet packages.

Roger

 

[Sal Santamaura]

...$9.00 times 6 boxes a year equals $54.00. $54.00 times five years equals $270 USD. Still not a lot, but some principle is involved...

Not following the math. xe.com converts the 1.9 Euro Mirko quoted to $2.55. That would be the savings per 100 sheets if it were packaged in a 100-sheet box rather than 4 25-sheet envelopes. How many hundred sheets are you saying you'd use per year / five years? What would the price difference be?

Other than "frugality," what principle is involved?

 

[mikebarger]

Let's just say they aren't offering the package option I'm looking for, a good FB paper in a 100 sheet box at a reasonable discount to a 25 sheet box. (actually I'd really prefer 250 or 500 sheet boxes like Kodak used to sell). So, I'll try other manufacturers products to see how they compare. I'll probably start with Foma FB since they have become a partner with APUG.

If you go above and look at my 7/27/09 post, in this thread, you'll see I was asking for a 250 sheet box then.

If you check Freestyle prices from other manufacturers, there is a considerably bigger price difference between 25 and 100 sheet boxes than is suggested above. Maybe the way they manage their business, or the profit they require, doesn't make 100 sheet (or larger) boxes acceptable to them. That's their business, not mine.

A free marketplace is good for consumers and companies that are lean and competitive.

Mike

 

[ADOX Fotoimpex]

Mike,

did thoughts about why Kodak purposely pulled out of paper manufacturing ever come cross your mind when you are asking for their price structure and 250 sheet boxes to come back allive ?
We manufacture boxes of 100 sheets. The discount as opposed to 4x25 sheets is about 2 Dollars.
I guess that´s why freestyle is not carrying them. We don´t save more per box than packaging and black bags.

Mirko

 

[mikebarger]

Mirko,

Sure, I know I’m one of the few individuals left that would buy a 250 sheet box of a paper, they like, for the savings vs. smaller boxes. I’d even like a 500 sheet box.

Kodak works on a very large volume and I’m sure when sales got to a certain point they pulled the plug and invested that capital somewhere to earn a larger profit than what paper would provide them. I understand that, and I’d do the same.

I like your product, but I prefer to buy larger boxes at a discount to the small box price. If it doesn’t make business sense for you to sell a 100 sheet box of paper at a discount to the small box, I’m fine with that.

However, there still are paper manufacturers that manage their business in such a way they can sell a 100 sheet box at a significant discount to their 25 sheet box.

I’ve decided to try a couple different brands and see what happens. I may like them, or I may say what the heck, and return to buying your product in small boxes.

In any event, I do wish you well in your venture.

Mike

 

[ADOX Fotoimpex]

Mike,

Maybe we should have raised the price for 25 sheet boxes in order to offer "political savings" on 100 sheet boxes.

But on the other hand that´s just not how we like to do business.

Let´s see what the future brings.

Thanks,

Mirko


BTW Fomafoto has nothing to do with Foma Bohemia SRO.