MaxPyro film developer

[garysamson]

I just received the MaxPyro film developer from Bostick & Sullivan and the only information supplied was the article that appeared in View Camera Magazine.
There is no indication of how much developer is required to process 80 square inches of film. I will be testing this dev. in a Jobo 3000 sheet film tank with 4x5 TMax 400. Has anyone worked with this developer? By the way, the kit was $45 with shipping and it makes 10 liters of working solution, so using this developer for large sheets of film in a tray (I also shoot 12x20) will be costly.

 

[jim appleyard]

Perhaps a call to B&S, especially if they have an 800 #? And then do a test sheet!

 

[gainer]

I just got mine and have only tried short test strips of HP5+ 35 mm. Judging by the activity, I would next try 36 exp.(about 80 sq. inches) in 250 mm. The capacity will probably be about the same as PMK.

 

[gainer]

At 50:1, 500 ml of stock should make 25000 ml of working solution, which IIRC is 25 liters. So, it's about $1.85 a liter of working solution. What other comparable working solution costs less ready mixed?

I have a Q&D test photo I'll try to send with enough resolution that you can see what's possible.

 

[Mahler_one]

With the greatest of respect for Gordon and those on the thread who have purchased and who are trying the new PyroMax....what possible advantages could be conveyed by yet another Pyro developer? As Gordon himself said in the View Camera article just published, some who are using PMK simply said that they weren't interested in trying the new MaxPyro, and try someone else. I am not trying to be facetous, but how could the new Pyro developer improve upon the numerous other formulations already extent? I myself an curious...what "improvements" are the users of MaxPyro looking for? Perhaps I should be looking to switch from Pyrocat HD and RolloPyro? Once again, NOT trying to criticize anyone else's motives or interest in MaxPyro, but what have they found to be lacking in the current formulations?

Ed

 

[garysamson]

At 50:1, 500 ml of stock should make 25000 ml of working solution, which IIRC is 25 liters. So, it's about $1.85 a liter of working solution. What other comparable working solution costs less ready mixed?

I have a Q&D test photo I'll try to send with enough resolution that you can see what's possible.

Dear Pat,
Gosh, perhaps I have made a mistake. The View Camera article provided with the kit recommends 50ml of A&B solutions per 1000ml which would make 10 liters of working solution from the two 500ml bottles. Are you using a different dilution than suggested?

 

[gainer]

In my test, I used 10 ml of each stock to make 500 ml of working solution. The suggested developing time for HP5+ worked quite well. Have you tried the stronger solution? I read over the instructions and found that you are right, but I feel that if I had not made my mistake, I would have had the "bulletproof" negatives Hutchings speaks of. I'll go back in the dungeon and try again. I still have some frames of the test roll.
PMK dilutions were even weaker. It would be worth a try to use 1:100:50 at higher temperature. That will wait til summertime here.

 

[JBrunner]

With the greatest of respect for Gordon and those on the thread who have purchased and who are trying the new PyroMax....what possible advantages could be conveyed by yet another Pyro developer? As Gordon himself said in the View Camera article just published, some who are using PMK simply said that they weren't interested in trying the new MaxPyro, and try someone else. I am not trying to be facetous, but how could the new Pyro developer improve upon the numerous other formulations already extent? I myself an curious...what "improvements" are the users of MaxPyro looking for? Perhaps I should be looking to switch from Pyrocat HD and RolloPyro? Once again, NOT trying to criticize anyone else's motives or interest in MaxPyro, but what have they found to be lacking in the current formulations?

Ed

I haven't tried it yet, but I'm eager to do so. I very muck like PMK specifically because of the nature and color of the stain. MaxPyro claims to overcome some of the disadvatages of the original PMK, while retaining the specifics that make PMK unique. If MaxPyro performs as claimed, I will be one happy camper. Pyrocat for instance is a fine developer an I have used it, but I have better success with my particular working methods with PMK, so for me an improved PMK is great news.

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

As a fan of Kodak D-1 (ABC pyro), I'm perfectly content with one of the earlier developer formulations, but then we might ask why do we need any new developer formulas when there are so many options already? I think some of the attractions of MaxPyro are supposed to be more image stain and less background stain (which seems to me like a euphemism for base fog, though perhaps it's chemically different), and better results with rotary processing than PMK. Perhaps the better is the enemy of the good, but I'd like to test the better to be sure.

 

[Mahler_one]

David: Thanks..but weren't Rollo Pyro AND Pyrocat HD specifically developed with rotary processing in mind? You are much more experienced and learned then am I, and I would look forward to your evalutation of the new MaxPyro.

Regarding the point about many film developers already available...a valid point, but do we truly "need" any others?

I am one who really enjoys trying new film/devloper combinations. Such efforts are really fun. However, several very wise mentors have cautioned that when one really learns the characteristics of one or two films and one or two developers that the likelihood of doing "better work" with other combinations is very remote. The "characteristics" of film and paper with various developers and techniques ( including Azo and amidol, platinum, carbon, etc., etc. ) are pretty well known now, and until the parameters of the film curves and paper curves are able to be changed then perhaps there are few dramatic differences to be had in any new developers. Just wondering...heck, aren't we all looking for something "better"? But, is there something "better" out there? I guess I just answered my own question: Perhaps MaxPyro is something better!


Ed

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

Yes, RolloPyro and Pyrocat-HD were developed with rotary processing in mind, but who knows, maybe there will be something different about MaxPyro.

I don't do rotary processing myself, and I'm not in a hurry to try MaxPyro, but I'll probably get to it eventually.

I also believe in pretty much sticking to one or two things, but I still learn things by experimenting occasionally, and once in a while, I switch, or I find something that works better for some specific application than what I normally use.

 

[garysamson]

In my test, I used 10 ml of each stock to make 500 ml of working solution. The suggested developing time for HP5+ worked quite well. Have you tried the stronger solution? I read over the instructions and found that you are right, but I feel that if I had not made my mistake, I would have had the "bulletproof" negatives Hutchings speaks of. I'll go back in the dungeon and try again. I still have some frames of the test roll.
PMK dilutions were even weaker. It would be worth a try to use 1:100:50 at higher temperature. That will wait til summertime here.

Pat,
At your suggestion, I am going to start with a dilution of 10:10:500 and process a test roll of Ilford HP5+ 120 roll film and try to post the results here tomorrow. Thanks for your help.

 

[bnstein]

A quibble I know, but I thought pyrocat-HD was *not* specifically formulated for rotary processing but for intermittent agitation, whereas pyrocat-MC was designed for rotary.

 

[Doug K]

Yes, RolloPyro and Pyrocat-HD were developed with rotary processing in mind, but who knows, maybe there will be something different about MaxPyro.

And here I use Pyrocat HD for semi-stand development. Shows what I know I guess.

I too am curious what this is supposed to correct. I've not read the article, so I don't know what to expect, but I've not read anything here that says anything either. All I'm seeing is it's the new latest thing.

 

[keeds]

I thought one of the main advantages of MaxPyro was supposed to be closer to box speed EI?

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

Well, Sandy can fill in the details, but my impression was that he was mainly using Jobo processing when he originally developed Pyrocat-HD, and the other refinements came along later. It certainly is a versatile developer that has been used with a number of methods.

Yes, I believe that one of the attractions of MaxPyro is supposed to be higher film speed, targeted at box speed.

While most pyro developers that people seem to be using don't get box speed, it's not as if you couldn't have a pyro speed developer. One of the ones I use is RAF pyro-metol. You can find the formula in the articles section under "staining developers."

 

[PhotoJim]

No one has commented on MaxPyro's stock solution longevity. PMK stock solution lasts for years. The relatively low volume of my processing (and the good results I get with PMK with most films, t-grain emulsions notwithstanding) makes that longevity quite useful for my darkroom.

 

[sanking]

What David writes is correct. When I developed the Pyrocat-HD formula in 1998 I was doing mostly rotary development in tubes, and all of my testing with LF film was done this way. However, even back then I was experimenting with stand and semi-stand development with MF film on reels in tanks and was very pleased to find that Pyrocat-HD also worked very well with minimal agitation as well as continuous agitation. However, the popularity of Pyrocat-HD for stand and semi-stand development is really due to Steve Sherman, who has promoted this type of development for quite a number of years.

A few years ago I developed the Pyrocat-M formula, which was designed to exhaust faster than Pyrocat-HD, the theory being that this would lead to greater adjacency effects with rotary processing. Later Pat Gainer suggested a couple of changes for mixing this formula in glycol, and it became known as Pyrocat-MC. MC uses the reducer pyrocatechin (catechol), metol and ascorbic acid instead of pyrocatechin and phenidone found in Pyrocat-HD so it is quite different chemically, not just a variation.

Sandy King

Well, Sandy can fill in the details, but my impression was that he was mainly using Jobo processing when he originally developed Pyrocat-HD, and the other refinements came along later. It certainly is a versatile developer that has been used with a number of methods.

Yes, I believe that one of the attractions of MaxPyro is supposed to be higher film speed, targeted at box speed.

While most pyro developers that people seem to be using don't get box speed, it's not as if you couldn't have a pyro speed developer. One of the ones I use is RAF pyro-metol. You can find the formula in the articles section under "staining developers."

 

[gainer]

One can mangle (or pervert) PMK by using p-aminophenol base instead of Metol and a small amount of ascorbic acid instead of bisulfite, thus making all ingredients soluble in either propylene glycol or TEA. Using TEA produces a single solution stock that is quite potent at 1 + 50. Using glycol allows one to play with various activators and various ratios of A to B. Whether it is worth doing is another question. The original PMK is noted for long storage life and even improvement with storage. As for the TEA, I have used TEA with the original PMK "A" instead of the metaborate solution in equal amounts with excellent results. It seems to be about the only organic base Hutchings didn't try before publishing the first edition of "The Book of Pyro."

 

[sanking]

Pat,

Does B&S supply an MSDS sheet with the Pyro Max developer? Or perhaps there is one on their web site.



Sandy

 

[garysamson]

Sandy,
There was no MSDS sheet supplied with the MaxPyro kit that I received from B&S and a search turned up nothing on their web site.

 

[sanking]

I thought that there was a legal requirement to make this information available to the public? I am fairly certain that Formulary does this, even for proprietary developers.


Sandy King

Sandy,
There was no MSDS sheet supplied with the MaxPyro kit that I received from B&S and a search turned up nothing on their web site.

 

[mikebarger]

I "think" for consumer goods a MSDS has to be available upon request, not required to ship with the product.

Mike

 

[Larry Bullis]

I "think" for consumer goods a MSDS has to be available upon request, not required to ship with the product.

Mike

This is true. I order lots of chemicals and have only received MSDS when I have asked for them. There'd be a lot of waste paper if the requirement were for the MSDS to accompany every shipment.

 

[gainer]

Pat,

Does B&S supply an MSDS sheet with the Pyro Max developer? Or perhaps there is one on their web site.



Sandy

I didn't find one with my shipment. Besides, the MSDS only concerns hazardous materials in sufficient quantities to do harm, IIRC. We know it has pyro. It would be no surprise if it had a sulfite. It could have some ascorbic acid in place of the bisulfite. I think it's a fine developer if you're after the pyrogallol color. There was no appreciable base stain on the HP5+ negatives.