Maximum movements in 4x5 field cameras

[MarkL]

I have a Zone VI 4x5 with lots of movements, but I'm wondering if there are other non-monorail cameras with more swing and more lateral shift. The Zone VI I have doesn't have rear shift at all and it would be handier than front shift with short focal length lenses. I realize it's asking a lot to have a field camera jump through hoops but just wondering what the range of possibilities is among cameras, for those times when there's a window frame or something that you'd like to straighten out.

Maybe it's a monorail I need and I might just look into those if my wooden lensboards would be interchangeable. Does anyone know whether any monorail out there would take the ZONE VI boards?

Thanks!
Mark

 

[Roger Hicks]

I have a Zone VI 4x5 with lots of movements, but I'm wondering if there are other non-monorail cameras with more swing and more lateral shift. Thanks!
Mark

Gandolfi Variant Level III. Or buy a Linhof Technikardan: a monorail that folds down to field camera size.

Can you not obtain more lateral shift via indirect movements?

(I have both...)

Cheers,

R.

 

[darinwc]

Field cameras are designed to be just that.. field cameras.
if you look at the design of them, most of them have the standards attached to the base with bolts at the far corners. The standards have slots which allow for some movements but they are limited. This allows for maximum stability without the need for a heavy-duty center linkage like in a monorail.

If you really need the extra movements, you might be better off with a monorail. If you still want portability, there are some good lightweight monorails available like the Toho or Arca Swiss..

BTW, Graphic-View cameras model 1 and 2 both use 4x4 lensboards. i've used some graphic-view lensboards in my zone vi but ive never tried the reverse.

 

[jstraw]

Gandolfi Variant Level III. Or buy a Linhof Technikardan: a monorail that folds down to field camera size.

Can you not obtain more lateral shift via indirect movements?

(I have both...)

Cheers,

R.

That's a good point. Yes, you can achieve lateral shift with indirect movements.

See the attachment:

 

[DannL]

If you don't mind a camera that's older/wooden/inexpensive, the old B&J 4x5 Commerial View and Grover is perty shifty.

As you can see in the link below, the shift and rises are quite generous, even in the 4x5. My 4x5 Grover is a rear-focus non-monorail with a focus hood similar to a Speed Graphic. Everthing you need in a disposable view camera, minus the price. Just thought I'd mention it.

http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/burkea/p5.html

These show up occasionally on ebay. Several a week, at least.

PS. Technically speaking tilt and swing is much more that 45 degrees. I think they originally advertised the usable range only.

Cheers!

 

[MarkL]

That's a good point. Yes, you can achieve lateral shift with indirect movements.

See the attachment:

Good point about using swings to get more shift. What I have needed on several occaisions has been more swing. I was thinking there might be other field cameras with more. I'll look into some of the suggestions above. Thanks!

 

[MarkL]

If you don't mind a camera that's older/wooden/inexpensive, the old B&J 4x5 Commerial View and Grover is perty shifty.

As you can see in the link below, the shift and rises are quite generous

Wow Dann, those are some generous movements!

 

[DannL]

Found an advertisement that is almost a spitting image of mine. For the record.
http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/burkea/p4.html

 

[Mark_S]

I use a Walker Titan SF which has tons of movements - front rise and fall, front tilt both base and axis, front swing, rear swing, rear shift, rear tilt, massive bellows extension, and in a package which is pretty much impervious to the elements.

Its disadvantages are the fact that it is larger and heavier than many 4x5 field cameras.

 

[Ole]

Yet again, I believe the Carbon Infinity takes the price!

 

[raucousimages]

Toyo VX125. Designed as a hybrid between a studio and field camera. Not cheap but has tons of movement and collapses down to pack in the field.

 

[Roger Hicks]

Toyo VX125. Designed as a hybrid between a studio and field camera. Not cheap but has tons of movement and collapses down to pack in the field.

I tried the VX125 next to my Technikardan (I reviewed it for the magazines when it came out). The concept of the VX125 is similar to the earlier Linhof, but (as I recall) it was even more expensive than the Linhof and I fractionally prefer the Linhof's handling. Either is a fine camera.

Cheers,

R.

 

[MarkL]

Regarding lensboard size, since my lenses are mounted on 4x4" boards and if I got a monorail camera that takes larger boards (say 6x6"), it should be no big deal to make a 6x6" board with a 4x4" opening and clips to act as a conversion board. Has anyone done this?

 

[raucousimages]

Toyo makes adaptor boards for several smaller boards. Making one might not be too hard.

 

[Campbell]

I've never found shift to be very important. My camera has front shift but I very rarely use it. I prefer to move the tripod a little rather than using shift. Shift changes the film/lens relationship so that you end up using more of the outer edges of the image circle, where most lenses aren't at their best, to make the photograph. By moving the tripod you keep the lens and film centered so that you're using more of the center of the image circle. Of course in some situations you don't have room to move the tripod so then you have no choice but I seldom run into those situations.

 

[k_jupiter]

If you don't mind a camera that's older/wooden/inexpensive, the old B&J 4x5 Commerial View and Grover is perty shifty.

As you can see in the link below, the shift and rises are quite generous, even in the 4x5. My 4x5 Grover is a rear-focus non-monorail with a focus hood similar to a Speed Graphic. Everthing you need in a disposable view camera, minus the price. Just thought I'd mention it.

http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/burkea/p5.html

These show up occasionally on ebay. Several a week, at least.

PS. Technically speaking tilt and swing is much more that 45 degrees. I think they originally advertised the usable range only.

Cheers!

While I know my knowledge is nowhere near complete, I have never seen a non-monorail Grover. The flatbed type made by B&J in various sizes was called the "Watson", a name also given to the Press camera by the same company. The Watson also has a fair amount of movements on both standards. If someone there had a clue as to how to design control knobs, it would have been a supirior camera. As is, I like both my Watson and Grover 5x7s and would take the Watson anywhere.

BTW - if anyone has an extra extension board for a 5x7 Watson just sitting around looking for a new home, Pmail me.

tim in san jose

 

[Kirk Gittings]

FWIW,

I have used either a Tachihara or a Zone VI for 28 years. There are better cameras with more movements for sure, but these function perfectly well.

To keep myself out of trouble when shooting fast in the field, I like to have a camera that runs out of movements just before I run out of lens coverage. I.E. a camera with a ton of movement has to be used very consciously in the field to avoid running out of lens and ruining images.

 

[DannL]

While I know my knowledge is nowhere near complete, I have never seen a non-monorail Grover. The flatbed type made by B&J in various sizes was called the "Watson", a name also given to the Press camera by the same company. The Watson also has a fair amount of movements on both standards. If someone there had a clue as to how to design control knobs, it would have been a supirior camera. As is, I like both my Watson and Grover 5x7s and would take the Watson anywhere.

BTW - if anyone has an extra extension board for a 5x7 Watson just sitting around looking for a new home, Pmail me.

tim in san jose

There's always the possibility that someone swapped the parts between models. I couldn't verify that, but I must thank them if they did. The bellows is grey, not red. Attached is a recent B/W shot of the camera (two months old). The plate on the top says "Grover" and I acquired it with an original extension. Everything seems to appear original to the unit, matching paint, etc. Who knows? I wouldn't doubt if it was a mishmash of camera parts.

My repairs included a new lens board, leather handle and base support for the tripod.

 

[Anupam Basu]

The Shen Hao 4x5 seems to have phenomenal movements for a folding field camera. Back shifts and rise as well as the ability to move the entire back standard forward for WA lenses. The only movements missing are front shifts and back fall - easily achieved by other means.

-Anupam

 

[MarkL]

The reason I started this thread is that I was making an image basically of an old barn's window and an arrangement of reflections in it. The casing nearly filled the frame with the 90mm lens. I was only a couple feet away from and pointed almost directly at the barn wall, but offset enough to get the camera out of the window's reflection. There was not enough swing in my field camera to straighten out the convergence of the window's casing and I wasn't that far out of perpendicular to it so I was very frustrated. It's those kinds of shots that I would like movement enough to get because the window casing is whacked when it looks like a trapezoid.

 

[darinwc]

I looked at the graphic view auctions you sent me and I think they will not be a good option for you. I dont think they have any more swing or shift than field cameras. Also they seem to be selling for alot more than i would expect from a entry level camera.

 

[MarkL]

I looked at the graphic view auctions you sent me and I think they will not be a good option for you. I dont think they have any more swing or shift than field cameras. Also they seem to be selling for alot more than i would expect from a entry level camera.

Thanks. I'm looking into Sinar F's.

 

[darinwc]

hey look theres a horseman to 4x4 lensboard adapter on apug right now... arent horseman lenboards compatable with sinar?

 

[k_jupiter]

There's always the possibility that someone swapped the parts between models. I couldn't verify that, but I must thank them if they did. The bellows is grey, not red. Attached is a recent B/W shot of the camera (two months old). The plate on the top says "Grover" and I acquired it with an original extension. Everything seems to appear original to the unit, matching paint, etc. Who knows? I wouldn't doubt if it was a mishmash of camera parts.

My repairs included a new lens board, leather handle and base support for the tripod.

That is a distinct possibility. There isn't a whole lot of difference between the standards of the flatbed and the monorail B&J Cameras. All my bellows (3) be red.

tim in san jose

 

[haziz]

Canham Field camera or Toyo VX125

Either a Canham Woodfield (or possibly the all metal version) or the Toyo VX 125 would fit your requirements. The Canham is a true field camera and the Wood field is in fact a fine 5x7 camera with a reducing back that you can use as a 5x7. It's weight is in fact about the same as your Zone VI 4x5. It's bellows draw is unusual for a 4x5 camera, partly because in fact it is a 5x7!

The VX125 is a "Field Monorail". I actually prefer it somewhat to the Canham but that is partly due to my preferance for the smoothness and precision of a geared metal monorail. The Arca Swiss Field and Linhof Technicardan are it's direct competitor but I have experience only with the Toyo.

Either camera would serve your purpose. Unfortunately both cameras are fairly expensive. You may want to try them out if you can find them which can be a challenge.

Sincerely,

Hany.