Max size paper for Paterson 12" x 16" development trays?

[MattKing]

If the 12" x 16" tray can hold 12" x16" paper, then Paterson themselves seem to have it wrong:

Developing Tray 12x16" (for 11x14) -

This Paterson Developing Tray is constructed of a hard durable, chemical resistant plastic, and is available for all popular print sizes in 3 colors to help differentiate between chemicals under safelight conditions. This is a single white tray that is 12 x 16" (30.5 x 40.6cm) in dimension...

www.patersonphotographic.ca

That is a listing hosted by the Canadian distributor, Amplis. Amplis is also the Canadian distributor for Ilford, Kentmere and Harman products.
Amplis doesn't do 12"x16" paper easily . It isn't something they import - even on a special order basis.
They do distribute lots of 11"x14" Ilford and Kentmere paper.
And Paterson doesn't make an 11"x14" tray.
Ergo, the 12"x16" Paterson trays are the ones they describe as being for 11"x14" papers.
Q.E.D.

Here is the Paterson site: https://patersonphotographic.com/product/paterson-developing-trays/

 

[logan2z]

That is a listing hosted by the Canadian distributor, Amplis. Amplis is also the Canadian distributor for Ilford, Kentmere and Harman products.
Amplis doesn't do 12"x16" paper easily . It isn't something they import - even on a special order basis.
They do distribute lots of 11"x14" Ilford and Kentmere paper.
And Paterson doesn't make an 11"x14" tray.
Ergo, the 12"x16" Paterson trays are the ones they describe as being for 11"x14" papers.
Q.E.D.

Here is the Paterson site: https://patersonphotographic.com/product/paterson-developing-trays/

I realize that is the Canadian Paterson site (or their distributor) but I'm going to guess that they got their information from Paterson the company. And I'd bet that B&H did as well, I don't think they just made up the 11" x 14" max size thing.

Maybe I'm being pedantic, but the .ca site says:

This is a single white tray that is 12 x 16″ (30.5 x 40.6cm) in dimension, for prints sizes up to 11 x 14″.

If the tray can hold a 12" x 16" piece of paper then the tray can be used for print sizes larger than 11" x 14" They should have said 'can accommodate 11" x 14" paper" or something similar, rather than "up to"

OK, this thread has been entertaining but has probably run its course. I got the answer I was looking for so thanks to everyone who confirmed that the tray will hold a 12" x 16" sheet of paper.

 

[mshchem]

That is a listing hosted by the Canadian distributor, Amplis. Amplis is also the Canadian distributor for Ilford, Kentmere and Harman products.
Amplis doesn't do 12"x16" paper easily . It isn't something they import - even on a special order basis.
They do distribute lots of 11"x14" Ilford and Kentmere paper.
And Paterson doesn't make an 11"x14" tray.
Ergo, the 12"x16" Paterson trays are the ones they describe as being for 11"x14" papers.
Q.E.D.

Here is the Paterson site: https://patersonphotographic.com/product/paterson-developing-trays/

I've used Paterson trays for decades, I never paid that close attention, but I recall thinking why two different sized 11×14 trays

 

[MattKing]

I'm going to guess that they got their information from Paterson the company.

You have a very optimistic opinion of how distribution works in Canada .
I don't know if Amplis is even aware that 12"x16" darkroom paper exists.
They don't distribute any, nor does their web store sell any.
And the only darkroom related stuff they sell is Ilford, Kentmere and Paterson.
All of which means no Canadian retailer sells 12"x16" Ilford or Kentmere paper, unless they are buying grey market product or importing it themselves.
FWIW, a tape measure indicates that the interior long dimension of my trays is 17 inches, while B&H's listing mirrors the 11"x14" print size limitation.
But unlike Canadian retailers, B&H will sell you 12"x16" Ilford and Foma papers, on a special order basis.

 

[GregY]

You have a very optimistic opinion of how distribution works in Canada .
I don't know if Amplis is even aware that 12"x16" darkroom paper exists.
They don't distribute any, nor does their web store sell any.
And the only darkroom related stuff they sell is Ilford, Kentmere and Paterson.
All of which means no Canadian retailer sells 12"x16" Ilford or Kentmere paper, unless they are buying grey market product or importing it themselves.
FWIW, a tape measure indicates that the interior long dimension of my trays is 17 inches, while B&H's listing mirrors the 11"x14" print size limitation.
But unlike Canadian retailers, B&H will sell you 12"x16" Ilford and Foma papers, on a special order basis.

Exactly.... I've never seen 12x16" in Canada. But B&H has both Foma & Ilford in stock albeit in limited choices....

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?q=ilford%20enlarging%20paper&filters=fct_category%3Ablack_white_802%2Cfct_size_373%3A12x16in

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/792495-REG/Foma_424265_Fomabrom_VC_FB_Variant.html

 

[logan2z]

Exactly.... I've never seen 12x16" in Canada. But B&H has both Foma & Ilford in stock albeit in limited choices....

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?q=ilford%20enlarging%20paper&filters=fct_category%3Ablack_white_802%2Cfct_size_373%3A12x16in

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/792495-REG/Foma_424265_Fomabrom_VC_FB_Variant.html

I think your search missed some Ilford papers:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?q=ilford%20multigrade%2012%20x%2016&sts=ma

B&H's selection of 12" x 16" paper is actually pretty good.

 

[logan2z]

B&H will sell you 12"x16" Ilford and Foma papers, on a special order basis.

FYI, several of the most common Ilford papers are available at B&H in 12" x 16" size without requiring a special order:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?q=ilford%20multigrade%2012%20x%2016&sts=ma

 

[Ian Grant]

I realize that is the Canadian Paterson site (or their distributor) but I'm going to guess that they got their information from Paterson the company. And I'd bet that B&H did as well, I don't think they just made up the 11" x 14" max size thing

The manufacturers information is 16"x12" trays are slightly oversized for 16"x12" paper.

In the US glass plate sizes were Quarter plate, 5x4, 7x5, 10x8 14x11, but here in the UK we used Quarter plate 5x4, Half plate, Whole plate 10x8, 12x10. 15x12. So our paper sizes matched the plate sizes.

So that maximum size of 14"x11" is made up, based on the basis of the maximum sized papers being imported to Canada that will fit the trays, not from the manufacturers data The internal measurements of the Paterson trays is 17.5"x13".

As Matt and Greg have said 16"x12" paper is not common in North America, but then 14"x11" is still less common in Europe.

My fairly recent 12x16 Paterson trays (2020 purchased, typePTP326G with EAN code 5022361010493) will perfectly accomodate a sheet of Fomaspeed Variant 12x16", while still maintaining a little free space on either side of the paper.

A little bit more in the length than in the width, but it's probably something like half an inch space in width and about an inch in length:

The paper inside is Fomaspeed Variant 12x16"

I haven't made any prints that size on Ilford paper, but for all other Ilford papers I use, the actual dimensions are pretty close to what's written on the box.
So yes, it should fit just fine.

The photo show clearly there's plenty of space in these trays, the much older polystyrene versions were 17"x13" internally, the extra 1/2" makes handling with print tongues easier.

Ian