Matte colour paper

[Robbie]

Evening all, does anyone in the UK know where you can get matte colour paper pre cut. I've found Fujifilm Type DP II but rolls only and I don't have the facilities to cut them myself. Any help would be appreciated.

 

[AgX]

Various sizes available at Nordfoto.


In case you only are seeking UK shops, you should change your wording...

 

[BMbikerider]

The amount of colour (RA4) paper has become extremely scarce with only Kodak (dire and virtually unobtainable in any surface) and Fuji seems to have cut back their production somewhat. As you have found it is only in rolls. I used the last of my Kodak roll some weeks ago so have to stick with Fuji. If you are a 'handyman' with simple tools, like me you can make a light tight dispenser for not a lot of money. If you wish I can send you my design for such a device made out of cut sheets of aluminium and angle aluminium strip all riveted together.
I am based in Durham, UK.

 

[AgX]

The amount of colour (RA4) paper has become extremely scarce with only Kodak (dire and virtually unobtainable in any surface) and Fuji seems to have cut back their production somewhat. As you have found it is only in rolls.

See my post above.

 

[BMbikerider]

Why should I seek colour paper from anywhere else. It is getting expensive now and import duties will only increase that cost. Kodak paper is almost certainly the better of the two brands and the remaining min labs are having to return to using Fuji.

Fuji paper is the only one available in sheet form 'off the shelf' but the rolls are available. However some dealers will only sell 2 rolls at a time which seems to me a little counter productive. I have used my own design roll dispenser for a number of years and I have offered to send the details to 'Chronsie' who made the original request.

 

[Robbie]

The amount of colour (RA4) paper has become extremely scarce with only Kodak (dire and virtually unobtainable in any surface) and Fuji seems to have cut back their production somewhat. As you have found it is only in rolls. I used the last of my Kodak roll some weeks ago so have to stick with Fuji. If you are a 'handyman' with simple tools, like me you can make a light tight dispenser for not a lot of money. If you wish I can send you my design for such a device made out of cut sheets of aluminium and angle aluminium strip all riveted together.
I am based in Durham, UK.

I’m not the handiest but my father in law enjoys a project so that might be worthwhile actually. Yeah I’ve heard good things about Kodak paper. I’m currently using Fuji gloss. I’m only looking for 8x10 because my v850 scanner won’t take any bigger and that’s the workflow I use, print in my darkroom and digitise with my scanner.

 

[Robbie]

Various sizes available at Nordfoto.


In case you only are seeking UK shops, you should change your wording...

I think my wording was okay. Thanks for the recommendation though, I did have a look and they do have the paper I’m looking for but unfortunately not in 8x10, that’s the size I need for scanning.

 

[lantau]

Why should I seek colour paper from anywhere else. It is getting expensive now and import duties will only increase that cost. Kodak paper is almost certainly the better of the two brands and the remaining min labs are having to return to using Fuji.

Fuji paper is the only one available in sheet form 'off the shelf' but the rolls are available. However some dealers will only sell 2 rolls at a time which seems to me a little counter productive. I have used my own design roll dispenser for a number of years and I have offered to send the details to 'Chronsie' who made the original request.

I wouldn't want to go through the hassle, either. The dealer cut sheets are, understandably, quite expensive. If you bought two rolls and used up only one you'd be even.

It is Fuji, who are packaging two rolls together in a box. A dealer wanting to offer single rolls will have to repackage them. And my order from Nordfoto was drop shipped by Fuji in the Netherlands. They never touched it.

I use a less sophisticated setup for cutting than you, and it is still quite acceptable. A simple wooden stand to hold the roll vertically while pulling the paper through my cutter. All set up in the dark. I'm using a suitable sheet as a template.

I can only recommend buying rolls, if at all possible. In my experience with colour printing you can go through paper quickly, at times. If correctly exposed and if taken in the same (day) light it's possible to rapidly print many frames from a single roll of film.

 

[koraks]

but unfortunately not in 8x10, that’s the size I need for scanning.

But they probably do sell 18x24cm, which is fairly close to 8x10", albeit at a different aspect ratio. Not sure how strictly you want to adhere to your standards, but given the very limited availability of cut sheet, I think you'll have to be/become flexible at some point...

Btw, I've had good experiences in the past with Nordfoto's Fuji cut sheet papers, but bad ones with Kodak paper from the same supplier. It was all fogged, either due to age or light exposure during the cutting operation. I moved to rolls due to this and now cut my own sheets just like @lantau does with a very simple/improvised rig, which works well enough with the advantage of more flexibility in the format you end up with. It's easy to cut a couple of longer sheets for panoramas for instance, or shorter sheets for test prints.

Kodak paper is almost certainly the better of the two brands

This is pertinently not the case. There are of course differences in product characteristics if you compare individual products, but again those are not brand-wide differences. Having used both extensively, I can say that both Fuji and Kodak RA4 papers are excellent and I never experienced any issues whatsoever that could be put down to the brand/manufacturer. Yes, that is precisely ZERO image defects or other quality anomalies across several rolls and many hundreds of feet of paper. The only problems I've had were either age-related issues (gifted very old paper) or handling issues (mainly fogging) either due to my own fault or external handler.

The main/only reason why I lament the demise of Kodak's RA4 papers (I honestly don't expect they will return, ever) is the fact that there's no easily obtainable alternative to their Endura paper. For Kodak Royal paper, Fuji Crystal Archive in its various renditions is a perfectly fine substitute. For Endura with its inherently high saturation, Fuji Maxima might be an alternative, but it only comes in bigger rolls than I'm willing to handle AND it seems it's more or less unobtainable to begin with.

 

[pentaxuser]

The main/only reason why I lament the demise of Kodak's RA4 papers (I honestly don't expect they will return, ever)

It's a strange world where the demand for Kodak colour film outstrips supply and yet there seems to be no future for its RA4 paper. I can only conclude that other than mini-labs there is not enough demand from home RA4 printing enthusiasts to make it worthwhile to bother to sell single rolls or cut sheets

pentaxuser

 

[gone]

It's a strange world where the demand for Kodak colour film outstrips supply and yet there seems to be no future for its RA4 paper.

There's a good reason for that, but don't make me use the 'D' word.

 

[AgX]

I can only conclude that other than mini-labs there is not enough demand from home RA4 printing enthusiasts to make it worthwhile to bother to sell single rolls or cut sheets

Not mini-labs, but industrial printing plants are eating RA-4 paper.

 

[pentaxuser]

Not mini-labs, but industrial printing plants are eating RA-4 paper.

I had no idea about this aspect. Why are industrial plants using such large quantities of RA4 paper which I presume they were not using previously when there was no problem with its supply?

Thanks

pentaxuser

 

[AgX]

Well, they use large quantities, as they crank out millions of photos. And they use chromogenic papers since decades.

 

[koraks]

It's a strange world where the demand for Kodak colour film outstrips supply and yet there seems to be no future for its RA4 paper.

Since it's a Chinese endeavor now it's probably not just a matter of supply and demand anymore but also subject to government policy and dynamics that aren't necessarily intuitive for us in the West. I doubt Chinese industrial policy (and the access to capital etc) favors a niche like this one. Odds are they wanted the Kodak business to milk it while it lasted and then have control over any relevant intellectual property and equipment. I'm sure there's some stuff in there they can use for other purposes.
But who knows, I might be pessimistic and they do manage a successful comeback at some point. Let's hope for it.

 

[MattKing]

Sino-Promise had been in the business for years - supplying Kodak Alaris with product and distributing huge quantities of Kodak Alaris product through the world.
There is no huge political back story. They are basically mired in pandemic consequences, and having tremendous difficulties as a result.

 

[pentaxuser]

Sino-Promise had been in the business for years - supplying Kodak Alaris with product and distributing huge quantities of Kodak Alaris product through the world.
There is no huge political back story. They are basically mired in pandemic consequences, and having tremendous difficulties as a result.

That's good news Matt as long as we can be sure this is the case. Presumably we just need to be equally sure that Sino Promise do not end up in the mire that an East v West future could herald

pentaxuser

 

[MattKing]

That's good news Matt

There are real financial difficulties there - production in that part of the world is substantially reduced, shipping is heavily impacted and the ability to source components is really compromised.
I understand that their US operations are still open, but .....

 

[DREW WILEY]

I don't know about product availability in the UK right now . Kodak is transferring their color paper production to China, and there's been an extreme disruption in supply due to pandemic issues. The local labs here that previously used Endura have switched to Fuji Superia. The demand for RA4 paper is still quite high, and a large variety is still being hypothetically offered. But besides pandemic mfg and distribution issues, the lack of Kodak product has dramatically increased demand for Fuji papers, which were already in short supply. I prefer Fuji, but tend to make big prints which require big rolls to cut from, and am still waiting on a backordered product. Fuji CAii cut sheet version is available up to 20X24 inches, and comes in gloss, satin, and matte here in the US. But shortages are beginning to appear even in that. It's made in the Netherlands.

 

[koraks]

There is no huge political back story

There is always a political backstory. We could debate if it's huge or not, but don't forget China isn't a pure market economy. For instance, in the recovery of industry after COVID, you can safely assume government policy plays a huge role in which industries get prime access to resources and which ones are being put on the back burner.

 

[BMbikerider]

But they probably do sell 18x24cm, which is fairly close to 8x10", albeit at a different aspect ratio. Not sure how strictly you want to adhere to your standards, but given the very limited availability of cut sheet, I think you'll have to be/become flexible at some point...

Btw, I've had good experiences in the past with Nordfoto's Fuji cut sheet papers, but bad ones with Kodak paper from the same supplier. It was all fogged, either due to age or light exposure during the cutting operation. I moved to rolls due to this and now cut my own sheets just like @lantau does with a very simple/improvised rig, which works well enough with the advantage of more flexibility in the format you end up with. It's easy to cut a couple of longer sheets for panoramas for instance, or shorter sheets for test prints.



This is pertinently not the case. There are of course differences in product characteristics if you compare individual products, but again those are not brand-wide differences. Having used both extensively, I can say that both Fuji and Kodak RA4 papers are excellent and I never experienced any issues whatsoever that could be put down to the brand/manufacturer. Yes, that is precisely ZERO image defects or other quality anomalies across several rolls and many hundreds of feet of paper. The only problems I've had were either age-related issues (gifted very old paper) or handling issues (mainly fogging) either due to my own fault or external handler.

The main/only reason why I lament the demise of Kodak's RA4 papers (I honestly don't expect they will return, ever) is the fact that there's no easily obtainable alternative to their Endura paper. For Kodak Royal paper, Fuji Crystal Archive in its various renditions is a perfectly fine substitute. For Endura with its inherently high saturation, Fuji Maxima might be an alternative, but it only comes in bigger rolls than I'm willing to handle AND it seems it's more or less unobtainable to begin with.

I have used Kodak in it's various forms since I started printing RA4 in the early 90's. I have strayed onto using FUJI and I found that the blacks were not quite so - shall we say black and the paper base is thinner too. I have checked that so I know using a micrometer on samples of the two. The only difference in FUJI's favour is the base is a real ice white whilst Kodak paper is not quite so white.

 

[BMbikerider]

I’m not the handiest but my father in law enjoys a project so that might be worthwhile actually. Yeah I’ve heard good things about Kodak paper. I’m currently using Fuji gloss. I’m only looking for 8x10 because my v850 scanner won’t take any bigger and that’s the workflow I use, print in my darkroom and digitise with my scanner.

Would you like me to send you my description of how to construct one.
As for size, You could also try a roll of 10" wide that way you could get more sheets off a roll than 8" wide for less unit costs

 

[Mike Crawford]

Evening all, does anyone in the UK know where you can get matte colour paper pre cut. I've found Fujifilm Type DP II but rolls only and I don't have the facilities to cut them myself. Any help would be appreciated.

Worth speaking to Process Supplies in London. There is a notice on their website to call regarding supplies of Kodak Endura, though they do have 10x8 Fuji Lustre in stock. https://www.processuk.net/CRYSTAL_ARCHIVE_CUT_SHEETS/cat740598_699223.aspx

I've been using them for a long time (decades!), and if it's available in this country, they usually can get it so best to call them. They will at least know of what is produced. Indeed, have recently written an article about them for Amateur Photographer, which comes out this week or next, in a series on Photographic Heritage as this family firm is almost 100 years old!

 

[koraks]

I found that the blacks were not quite so - shall we say black and the paper base is thinner too

This is true for Crystal Archive type II, but keep in mind that there are many Fuji papers on the market. Your statements don't apply to e.g. Crystal Archive Supreme and several other variants. Don't be fooled that many of their papers are called 'Crystal Archive' as they really are entirely different papers.
Likewise, Kodak Royal is a paper of similarly poor quality as Crystal Archive type II. So the sentiment that Kodak is inherently better than Fuji is only true if you're very selectively compare certain products from both companies. As always, blanket statements are not very accurate.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Well, Superia only comes in small width rolls for Photofinisher usage. Super C is getting hard to find, and premium Maxima is sold only directly to outfits with wide format laser printing capacity, it seems, though it should be outstanding optically enlarged as well. I'm waiting for a 30 inch wide roll of Fujiflex Supergloss - now that's the real deal - stunning product - and on polyester base rather than RC paper.

CAii is a decent product, as in OK. If you shoot Ektar, the two go together competently. At least it's available in convenient cut sheet fashion. Don't know how much longer that will last. They should offer something like Superia in larger sizes instead.