MAS's computer aided PT prints

[mark]

No, this does not belong on Hybrid photo so before you pop in with that comment read.

It has been a while since I visited MAS's site. His PT prints are quite stunning on my screen so they must be gorgeous in real life.

I read how they were made and have read in other places about using several computer generated registered negatives to increase depth and contrast in PT prints.

I love PT prints but have always thought that many, that I have seen, needed some deep rich blacks. PT prints seem to fall short of that black.

I don't want to use a computer process is important to me. Is this depth, richness, and deep black tone possible without the aid of a computer. For me the ALT processes are the epitome of everything that is hand done in BW photography, and removing part of the hand and giving it to the computer to do for you removes too much of the process for me. Just my opinion, and for me the process is sometimes as important as the image.(See first quote below) I feel this way about fine furniture too. Most of the time I can't afford either the print or the furniture but they are nice to look at.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

As someone who prints pt/pd, I would say yes, definitely, you can get rich deep blacks without needing multiple pin-registered digital negatives. There are those out there who disagree, but I would say that some who insist that pt/pd does not look as good as silver are making a fallacious comparison - pt/pd is NOT silver, and if you are going to extreme lengths to make it look just like silver you are defeating the purpose of printing pt/pd in the first place. The tonal range and the contrast are inherently, qualitatively different. You should seek to print pt/pd because you want those inherent qualities in your final print. Otherwise, there is no need to stop printing silver.

 

[Robert Hall]

Well said Scott.

 

[mark]

Scott,

By looking like silver, are you saying compressing exposure scale? Can you explain. I'm not disagreeing with you, just wondering.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

Yes, in part, I mean compressing the tonal scale. One of the great strengths of pt/pd is the ability to render half, quarter and even eighth-tone values. Kind of like expecting to match the sound of a guitar using a violin. They're both stringed instruments, but the violin is designed to produce a very different kind of sound, and give the player a different degree of control over the sound.

 

[Allen Friday]

Hi Mark,

It is quite possible to get a good, convincing black with a platinum/palladium print. The three factors that determine print tone and the depth of the black are: ratio of platinum to palladium, developer and paper. I think there has been a trend in pt printing over the last 5+ years towards warmer prints with as long a tonal scale as possible. Today, many printers are using very little or no platinum in the mix. This leads to warmer prints (not a deep a black) and longer tonal scales. In part, I think it is economic, palladium cost much less than platinum, in part it is aesthetic, it looks more “platinum” and distinguishes the print from silver, and in part I think it is technical, the NA-2 method for pure palladium printing was introduced recently and people have been pushing the boundaries of what is possible with palladium alone.

I have several pure palladium prints done by some of the best printers alive today. They are stunning. But, they do not have a true black. It's not right or wrong, it's just a personal preference. It is no different than one silver printer using a cold tone paper and developer and selenium toning the print and another printer using a warm tone paper and developer and sepia toning the print. Both can make excellent prints, but the final results are very different.

For my own work, I like to have a good black in the final print. But, I like the mid-tones warm and the high-lights to be bright, with a touch of warmth. I experimented with a lot of combinations and finally settled on using equal parts pt/pl, pot ox developer (a warn tone developer) and white paper. I also use natural papers if I want the highlights warmer. With the proper negative, I can get a very long tonal scale, but not as long as I would with pure palladium. To me, it is a good compromise. I suppose for some the prints would be too silvery. But, they please me.

Platinum printing is wonderfully flexible. You can get very cold tones with rich blacks and you can get exceedingly warm tones with no blacks. Its up to you to find the combination of materials that match your artistic vision.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

With the NA2 method, since you are introducing platinum into the mix, you can get a more cold-tone, deeper black with otherwise pure palladium than you would if you used the A+B method or the dichromate method. Without a minimum platinum content, however, you're not going to get a really deep neutral-to-cold-tone black. As Allen mentioned, it is also dependent on the paper - some papers are inherently more contrasty than others, and produce a brighter white for a highlight, thus presenting the appearance of a deeper black to begin with. There is also a technique (which I have only read superficially about) that has you coating platinum on albumen paper to give the finish look of a wet platinum print, which has deeper blacks (pt/pd prints are often said to "dry up", that is, lose apparent density and contrast, as opposed to silver, which dries down). There is a seminar being taught (which I would like to attend, but don't know if I have the time right now) at the F295 conference in Pittsburgh about this platinum over albumen technique - look up their website to see if this is something that might appeal to you.

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

I saw two of them today at AIPAD alongside some of Michael's and Paula's Azo prints, and I have to say, while the platinum prints are fine prints, I was more impressed by the Azo prints. Maybe it's my preference for prints from camera negatives, or maybe it's that Azo is the medium that they're most at home with, but I felt there was a better sense of three-dimensionality in the chloride prints.

 

[Keith Taylor]

It has been a while since I visited MAS's site. His PT prints are quite stunning on my screen so they must be gorgeous in real life.

Could you post a link to the website please?

Keith.

 

[mark]

http://www.michaelandpaula.com/mp/html/platinumprints.html

 

[jd callow]

I saw two of them today at AIPAD alongside some of Michael's and Paula's Azo prints, and I have to say, while the platinum prints are fine prints, I was more impressed by the Azo prints. Maybe it's my preference for prints from camera negatives, or maybe it's that Azo is the medium that they're most at home with, but I felt there was a better sense of three-dimensionality in the chloride prints.

It interesting what people see in prints. I never see the 3d in AZO, what I see is the detail of RC gloss with the rich tones of fibre. In Pt/Pd I see even richer tones in a very romantic dipiction. In the web images it appears that M&P are trying to bend, with some success, Pt/Pd to AZO. I don't think their work is as well suited to Pt/Pd as it is to AZO. In this I think David is correct. Ther aesthetic has developed hand in hand with their materials. The use of digital negs may further agravate the disassociation, but I suspcet that isn't the case

What was really interesting was seeing prints by M&P, Les McLean, Tim Rudman, Sandy King, BoB Carnie and the best of APUG who submitted work to the APUG Conference hanging in one room.