Mask or Kill the Smells - What's best?

[grain elevator]

Why do you do more thorough washing before toning (with selenium toner which contains hypo, right?) than after? Do you need that much to avoid staining? I'd try doing less before, as little as you can get away with to get no staining. Much more washing is needed after toning, or use rc paper. In your current way you're probably making fibre prints for the bin.

 

[MTGseattle]

@runswithsizzers definitely. IBC(International building code), can be supplanted and added to seemingly willy-nilly by local authorities. IBC should never be "down-graded" by local authorities but I'm sure there are cases where its happened. Bath fans are mainly about getting moist (bath/shower) air out. The reason for insulated duct is so that the warm air moving through a cool unconditioned space doesn't then cause condensation issues along the path of the duct itself as it runs through the structure. Florida and Washington are obviously quite different climate wise, so bathroom venting could be almost an afterthought down there. There's also the Indoor Air act which causes us some extra work (regarding kitchen range hoods) out here. I can't remember if that's a national or state level legislation though.
@Rrrgcy sorry for throwing a bunch of stuff at you that you may not have ever wanted to know.
@warpath I'm surprised by that. Ca seems to get thrown under the bus a lot for leading the charge on various restrictions and "complications" regarding building codes.

https://www.sbcc.wa.gov/sites/default/files/2019-12/VIAQ07.pdf This has caused a few of our clients some extra "heartburn" as we've had to modify and expand their existing forced air hvac systems to accommodate these rules. Hvac industry as a whole seems to be able to charge whatever the heck they want these days, so the dollars involved can get silly fast. Like shooting 8x10 transparency.

 

[rjbuzzclick]

...and everything is run down the sink and tub afterwards with a fair dose of water from the faucets...

You may also want to check your local regulations regarding proper chemical disposal.

 

[Rrrgcy]

Thank you again to responses. Exhaust - immediately practical is open the small bathtub window and use a light fan to push air out. im assuming your warnings are even if you can’t smell fumes, breathing the outgas of chemicals for a few hours isn’t healthy.

Chemical disposal - I flush down the pipes yes, but not the two hazards. Thankfully every 3 months we have community haz waste disposal collection events locally. Spent fixer+ selenium toner is stored in gallon plastic jugs in the garage. Out it will go when I have several bottle each. Marked w “X” and poison. I’ve got other haz liquid waste, too, so it’s easy. But some minute amt of the bad stuff already in the paper inevitably goes down the drain through the rinsing washing process and maybe adding a lingering smell to the facilities so to speak. I’m just having trouble believing that a few hours of open air developing chems, once rid, would continue to leave smells. Maybe if I’ve not fully washed my paper it dries in the adjacent rooms (on the rug where the photoflo finished paper lets some wetness get into the rug)…

There is a ceiling air vent - and it’s in the bathtub room (where the 2nd half of my process occurs, not the develop, stop fix) and I need to have that door closed due to light coming through that room into the primary developing area. Yes, I can probably use the ceiling vent in the bathtub room or the window w small fan to push out the smell of the selenium toning process…

My tap water washing regimen may be wrong but it’s just how I’ve setup my series of trays. Sometimes the paper is in a water tray just hanging out until I can get it it to the next step so water times may be longer. In reading along this fine site, I’ve become mindlessly habituated to believe water is needed between every step to clear chemicals. For fiber paper matte -

Bathroom two-sink room
Use enlarger then
1. developer chem, remove, then leave in a tray for a minute under softly running water
2. stop chem, remove, then leave in a tray for a minute under softly running water, then placed into a tray with standing water (up to a minute or two)
3. fix chem, remove, then leave in a tray with softly running water for about a minute then in still water (up to about five mins)

these water trays are constantly emptied and refilled with fresh water

then the paper moves to the Bathroom bathtub room
1. hypo chem, remove, then rinsed for about 30 secs under softly running water and into a tray of standing water for several minutes up to about five ten mins
2. selenium toner chem, remove, then placed Into tray of standing water for several minutes if not five or more minutes, then rinsed under softly running water
3. photoflo Chem, remove and dry

My dry paper still has a scent.

Yes, the exterior doors are closed throughout the entire process working each session three hrs straight and with minor breaks, I’ve been breathing it.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Rather than dump chemicals down the drain, which I could legally do, I take it to my local hazardous waste collection site.

 

[koraks]

My dry paper still has a scent

Maybe due to the brief wash after selenium toning. Your prints will still have some remnants of the selenium toner embedded in the paper base.

 

[MattKing]

Maybe due to the brief wash after selenium toning. Your prints will still have some remnants of the selenium toner embedded in the paper base.

And selenium toner has fixer in it.

 

[koraks]

Certainly so. Insufficient washing after selenium toning will likely produce staining a couple of years down the road.

 

[eli griggs]

It occured to me, I've never asked this question.

Can selenium concentrate be mixed into old selenium toner, that was let down to working strenghts, without degenerdation?

Would removing the small black particles from the older, mixed with water be necessary, before the fresh solution is added, or can they stay/accumulate where they are?

 

[DREW WILEY]

Lack of odor does not equate to safe. The KGB specializes in odorless, tasteless things that kill you. You have to have air exchange regardless. Some recirculating kitchen hoods use activated carbon filter elements; but those filters are pricey and need frequent replacement. Likewise with activated carbon respirator filters. Neither are a substitute for air exchange. I can't imagine any bathroom which can't be adapted for at least a through the wall fan, or a through the roof one, if it doesn't already have one. The ideal of doing your developing, stop bath, and fixing without ventilation is a pretty fast ticket to serious sinusitis or respiratory irritation.

I hesitate to comment on Big Bad Wolf accusations about building codes. An unventilated bathroom is a first class ticket to mold and rot anywhere. I'm facing a huge rot problem in one of my bathrooms right now because the previous owner did a DIY shower tile job without a vapor barrier behind it. Gotta replace a whole wall. How codes are written and enforced has little or nothing to do with the HVAC or pluming unions except in some infamous East Coast big cities. Those guys aren't even needed on most residential projects except perhaps complex heating and AC duct systems in condo projects. Any competent contractor could do most or all of it. But many building inspectors are rotten to the core accepting bribes and overlooking violations. I did my own darkroom complex all code and legal permit, and was lucky to get a younger inspector who was one of the honest ones, and frankly, quite interested in what I was doing because he wanted a darkroom of his own.

Disposal of spent chemicals depends where you live. For anything really nasty, I take it to hazmat drop off twice a year along with leftover paint. The amount of silver or selenium that goes down the drain in the typical home darkroom is so small in the overall scheme of things that I had an EPA enforcer tell me it isn't even on their radar. Surfactants like Simple Green being hosed off driveways are dramatically more lethal to fish and water invertebrates - tiny amounts prevent their gills from absorbing oxygen in the water. And then there are carcinogenic garden nasties like Roundup. Don't flush silver into a septic system.

 

[koraks]

Can selenium concentrate be mixed into old selenium toner, that was let down to working strenghts, without degenerdation?

It can be replenished, yes. As to degradation - depends on what kind of contaminants may have accumulated in it. I've had 'working stock' Se toner that seemed to die at some point. I suspect contamination with a sulfur compound, possibly thiourea.

Would removing the small black particles from the older, mixed with water be necessary

I never found the black crud to be a problem; it generally washes off the print easily and doesn't seem to be harmful. It's easy to filter it out if so desired.

 

[eli griggs]

It can be replenished, yes. As to degradation - depends on what kind of contaminants may have accumulated in it. I've had 'working stock' Se toner that seemed to die at some point. I suspect contamination with a sulfur compound, possibly thiourea.



I never found the black crud to be a problem; it generally washes off the print easily and doesn't seem to be harmful. It's easy to filter it out if so desired.

Thank you.