Mamiya Super 23 or Koni- Omega

[campy51]

I have always wanted to try one one of these but not sure which would be better. I would like the 6x9 since I have plenty of 6x6. I do have a Medalist II but I find it clunky to hold and re-spooling makes it less attractive to just pickup and shoot. I have a couple of Minolta Autocords and a Yashica Mat 124G if anyone is interested in trading for one.

 

[cjbecker]

I just got a koni omega 100, and it is about the best camera I have ever used. I was looking to replace my nikon f3 for snaps of daily life with my family, (I really don't like printing from 35mm in the darkroom) It is very fast to use, fast enough to chase a toddler around, the big selling point for me was the rack and pinion focusing. I much prefer it over using my 500cm with focus handles on the lenses for fast snaps because of the rack and pinion. The koni omega and a 4x5 graflex could easily replace all my cameras, it pretty well does away with 35mm for speed and ease of use, and a graflex does all my portraits, and does away with my Hasselblad. The koni omega and a speed graphic are like a match made in heaven.

 

[Nicholas Lindan]

I have a Mamiya Universal, one of the Press 23 variants. Definitely not a fast camera. However, it is a lot easier to find lenses, backs and accessories. If you are into macro, or need perspective correction, then the models with the extending bellows back and ground glass attachment are nice to have - but very slow working.

The Mamiyas are more reliable, in part because they are much simpler.

 

[cramej]

Koni-Omegas are 6x7. Frame spacing can be a problem on the Koni's. Many of them were abused as wedding cameras and the cocking/advance rack can be worn. If you find a decent one, they're durable and seemingly reliable, but try to advance the film like a Mossberg 500 and you'll quickly find a weak point. Lenses are excellent. I had a 200 with the 90mm many years ago but sold it because it was awkward for me to use.

 

[campy51]

How would a Rapid be for under $200? I believe it's the original version.

 

[Paul Howell]

I used Konica Omega 100 and 200s in the Air Force, currently have 3 Mamiya Universals and a Press with 4 lens kit. The Konica is quick, the shutter is cocked when the ratchet film advance is pulled. My NOIC use to use the one handed advance with put a lot of stress on the mechanics. There 4 lens (?) Air Force units came as kit with a wide, the 90 normal and 180, all sharp, Konica made some very good glass. The Mamiya is slower need to cock the shutter, had 6X7 and 6X9 backs as well a multiback with masks, 6X4.5 6X6 and 6X9. Lens range from a 55 to 250, which as I understand it came in 2 variations, without and with coupling to the rangefinder. The early models also have a glass back and 6X9 sheet holders. There is a Polaroid branded camera with a separate set of lens. I have 6X9, 6X7 backs, dont use ghe 6x7 back much, and a glass back for the press with I use when hiking.

The only real issue for the Konica is that many of the units were heavily used by wedding and events photographers and the ratchet advance might be well worn, have no idea who can fix it.

 

[MattKing]

Condition, condition, condition - particularly the film backs.

 

[gordrob]

I have both The Mamiya Press Universal and the Super 23 and use them a lot. Some people refer to them as heavy but they are not that bad. My Canon F1N with motor drive and a telephoto lens is heavy. I have mainly 6x9 backs as I am not a fan of square or 6x7.I find that the backs hold the film very flat. With wide angle lenses the 6x9 negatives are incredibly sharp. The 100mm f2.8 lens is a very good lens as is the 250mm f5. There is a lot more accessories and lenses available online than there is for the Koni Omega.

 

[Dennis-B]

I own both the Mamiya Universal Press and a Koni Omega Rapid 100. For the Universal I use the 100mm and mostly 6x9; and the Koni Omega has 90mm, 58mm, and 180mm lenses.

Both produce tack-sharp images, but the Koni has the edge when it comes to being handy. The weak point of the Koni, though is the ratcheting film advance. I've seen a number of them which had been "machine gunned" in the film advance, and the pinion will eventually need to be repaired/replaced.

I just bought a 250mm f/5 for the Mamiya, and I'm looking forward to using it for landscape images.

Overall, though, I'd select the Mamiya and maybe add a wide angle lens for the "kit".

 

[mgb74]

I've used both - though many years ago. The Super 23 will likely be more reliable. So unless your really need the faster handling of the Koni Omega, I'd go with the Mamiya. Especially with the newer Seiko (as opposed to Seikosha) shutters.

 

[hsandler]

I have the Koni-Omega Rapid (version without mid-roll film back changes). Image quality is superb, not only because of the lenses, but the pressure plate presses more firmly than most cameras because there is a mechanism that tensions it as the shutter release is pressed (this does, however, mean a very long throw shutter release that needs a strong press or a strong long-throw cable release). Frame spacing can be erratic, and the pinion in my back is not worn; it's due to variations in the thickness of different film stocks I think. The rack moves less and less as the roll advances, but the design is based on an assumed thickness.

Ergonomics and the viewfinder/rangefinder are good, but this is a very big heavy camera. If the Fujica medium format rangefinders are the "Texas Leicas", this is a "Brobdignagian Leica".

These days I tend to use it for infrared photos on a tripod with the 58mm wide angle lens, or for photos of vintage cars, also with the wide angle lens. The wide lens needs series VII filters. The auxiliary viewfinder for the wide angle is really nice to use.

Earlier copies of the Rapid had a thinner flat left hand grip; later copies have a more rounded thicker grip of shiny plastic with a shoulder at the top which rests some of the weight on the top of your fist. The angle of the grip is adjustable. I much prefer the later grip. You can see the two versions here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/hsandler/46658712965/in/album-72157697258248334/

I have lots of samples taken with my Rapid here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/hsandler/albums/72157697258248334

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

How would a Rapid be for under $200? I believe it's the original version.

Five years ago I bought a Koni Rapid 100 with two lenses and an external viewfinder on eBay for $175. The seller was kind enough to give me two additional backs along with the back on the camera. As can be the case with the backs, one of the three backs was non-functional. Lenses were in pristine condition. Though Koni is an oddball camera that only some will like to use, I liked my Koni so much that I even considered buying a second body for around $100. Instead I bought a telephoto lens. Looks like eBay prices have gone up substantially since then.

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

I have lots of samples taken with my Rapid here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/hsandler/albums/72157697258248334

Nice work! Thanks for sharing.

 

[campy51]

I just bought this with a free 30 day return.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/255112143791

 

[MattKing]

I just bought this with a free 30 day return.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/255112143791

That looks really good.
I'm not sure if this matters a lot, but that isn't a Rapid Omega 200, it is a Rapid M.
In case you haven't seen it: http://www.peterlanczak.de/koni_overview.htm

 

[cjbecker]

Its a great camera you will really enjoy it, I will elaborate a little more tho. It’s by far my favorite normal use camera. Normal use as in taking normal everyday pictures of my family. Its great for carrying around, going to the river, lake, pool, and documenting life. For formal portraits using a tripod, I will still keep using my speed graphic and 4x5 film, would like to get a 6x7 back tho, or hasseblad.

 

[campy51]

Yes I know it's not a 200. I think the price is reasonable to give it a try. I have so many medium format cameras now but this is the only 6x7. I have a Medalist II for 6x9 but I rarely use it because of it's awkwardness in holding and re-spooling but everything else is 6x6.

 

[ruilourosa]

The 50mm, 75mm and 100mm 2.8 are enough to have the Mamiya. The 100mm is easely the best lens i have... And i have the 100mm planar for hasselblad.


Yes heavy but deal with it

 

[Randy Stewart]

Yes I know it's not a 200. I think the price is reasonable to give it a try. I have so many medium format cameras now but this is the only 6x7. I have a Medalist II for 6x9 but I rarely use it because of it's awkwardness in holding and re-spooling but everything else is 6x6.

The 200 and the Rapid M are functionally the same and use all of the accessories and lenses made for the system. The Rapid M was manufactured by Konica; the 200 was manufactured by Mamiya after it took over the operation. The first/original Koni-Omega should be avoided in most cases, as it has similar film backs which are unique to that model - somewhat hard to find in good condition. The Mamiya system is more flexible re formats and some accessories, but IMO its lenses are inferior to the Koni. It is much slower in normal operation than the Koni, if that's important.

 

[ruilourosa]

Lenses are really not inferior to koni...

Condition and individual lens and camera should be noted...
As the rangefinder accuracy...

Claims of this being better than that are usually made on readings and second hand opinions.
I really doubt that a lot do people had both cameras being in informed use at same time with several lenses...

Koni is a strange camera and after a few cameras and lenses, i moved towards Mamiya because the lenses were more pleasing regarding color, checked resolution and choice. I used both for two years....
Koni lenses are good especially the 90mm 3.5
Mamiya 50, 75 and 100 2.8 are really good.
I also have the 65 and the 127 and although they are good they do not shone...

The id divider is nice for stereoscopy


But remember, these are 70's lenses... And both cameras are heavy, specially mamiya

 

[campy51]

I scanned my first roll from the Koni Rapid M and despite my difficulty focusing they came out pretty nice. I have some very nice 6x6 medium format cameras but I think I like the 6x7 format better and may consider selling some to upgrade to a Mamiya 7. I have the Mamiya 6 and I like the viewfinder and the exposure meter is accurate. The Fuji GW690 might also be an option.

 

[Auer]

6X7 is a great format, as is 6x4.5.
Just pleasing aspect ratio's.

Peraonally I have very little interest in 6x6, I find it plain boring.

 

[cjbecker]

Mine was also a little hard to focus until i pulled the top off and cleaned all the surfaces with a q-tip. Made all the haze disappear and also made the focus spot higher contrast.

 

[Paul Howell]

I have both 6X7 and 6X9 for my Universals, don't use the 6X7 back much, I print 6X9 full frame on 11X14. Mamiya 7 would be a great addition, seems like the electronics are hold up.

 

[removed account4]

if you ever need your Koni's repaired
https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/help-with-a-koni-omega.38542/#post-552563
greg weber is the guy to contact. ...