Mamiya Six Automat Folder Issue

[shutterfinger]

Have you tried shinning a light into the viewfinder and rangefinder windows from the front while looking into the camera from the rear in total darkness?

 

[removed account4]

hi
i had one of these cameras ( or one of its sibblings )
and loved it ... sorry to see yours is trouble
not many places for light to enter in this camera
the bellows where it attaches the lens standard
or the camera body, and the back of the camera ...
you took it to a repairman showing him the film
and asked him to fix it .. but it was still scrwy ?
hope you didn't pay the guy !
hmmm
have you taped the window
and taped the actual back of the camera ?
if it isn't the bellows
the top doesn't communicate wtih the inside of the camera
it only leaves the back ...
==
i hate to say this but you might consider selling it and getting a new one if you can't fix it
sell it for what you paid and the CLA and just say it has a light leak
lightleaks can add character sometimes

 

[summicron1]

OK, i have one of those, right here in my hot little hands. (OK, not so little) Looking into the film chambers, both supply and take-up, there is solid metal all around, no way in hell that light could leak into there and onto the film before it is wound up (or as it leaves the supply)...unless someone has had the camera apart and left something out when they put it back together.

is it solid metal in there? on both sides?

another possibility -- right under the rollers, on both sides, there is a seam -- looks as if the shielding in the film chambers is flush against the box that makes up the area where the film is exposed and the rear of the bellows is mounted...is that seam tight? Could light be leaking through there? maybe cover the seams with black tape ... it would fit under the rollers.

can u post pics of the film chambers?

 

[shutterfinger]

ASSUMING the images in post 23 are in normal viewing position then this is how the negative lays on the image plane when being exposed:

Looking at the back of the camera the light leak is on the top left, looking at the front of the camera its on the top right.
Being the camera moves the film/image plane for focusing it most likely the seal between the moving and fixed parts of the camera.
Another prime spot is where the bed brace attaches to the body as bellows frequently rub against the brace attach points during opening/closing of the bed. Pin holes in the bellows can close then open depending on the stretch of the bellows for focusing.

 

[campy51]

As a reference, this is what my latest roll of film looks like with the light leak.
View attachment 211525 View attachment 211526 View attachment 211527

I noticed on the right 2 that one shot was in front and the from the side and the one from the side has more leaks. Do you know where the sun was when you took them? You might be able to determine what side of the camera it might be coming from. Also what if you wrap different parts of the camera and take test shots from one position.

 

[noahsmith]

Have you tried shinning a light into the viewfinder and rangefinder windows from the front while looking into the camera from the rear in total darkness?

Great question, I did that last night and didn't notice any light coming into the film chamber area. One thing I did notice was, if I put a light pointing towards the front of the lens (when the shutter blades are closed) it seems like there is faint amount of light I can see when looking through the back of the camera at the lens itself. This could just be a reflection coming through though, its hard to say.

ASSUMING the images in post 23 are in normal viewing position then this is how the negative lays on the image plane when being exposed:
View attachment 211530 View attachment 211531
Looking at the back of the camera the light leak is on the top left, looking at the front of the camera its on the top right.
Being the camera moves the film/image plane for focusing it most likely the seal between the moving and fixed parts of the camera.
Another prime spot is where the bed brace attaches to the body as bellows frequently rub against the brace attach points during opening/closing of the bed. Pin holes in the bellows can close then open depending on the stretch of the bellows for focusing.

That's good to know, im going to look at the bellows and those areas again this morning to see if anything looks wrong.

 

[noahsmith]

OK, i have one of those, right here in my hot little hands. (OK, not so little) Looking into the film chambers, both supply and take-up, there is solid metal all around, no way in hell that light could leak into there and onto the film before it is wound up (or as it leaves the supply)...unless someone has had the camera apart and left something out when they put it back together.

is it solid metal in there? on both sides?

another possibility -- right under the rollers, on both sides, there is a seam -- looks as if the shielding in the film chambers is flush against the box that makes up the area where the film is exposed and the rear of the bellows is mounted...is that seam tight? Could light be leaking through there? maybe cover the seams with black tape ... it would fit under the rollers.

can u post pics of the film chambers?

Great to know that you own one. Yes, my film chambers are also solid metal. I've attached photos below of the film chamber and also the seam I think you are referring to, can you confirm that? The seam looks like there is a very tiny gap between the wall of where the film is exposed and the chamber.

 

[noahsmith]

I noticed on the right 2 that one shot was in front and the from the side and the one from the side has more leaks. Do you know where the sun was when you took them? You might be able to determine what side of the camera it might be coming from. Also what if you wrap different parts of the camera and take test shots from one position.

I dont remember what side the sun was on when I took those photos unfortunately, good idea though. And yes, it sounds like wrapping different parts of the camera might be the next route to go.

 

[noahsmith]

hi
i had one of these cameras ( or one of its sibblings )
and loved it ... sorry to see yours is trouble
not many places for light to enter in this camera
the bellows where it attaches the lens standard
or the camera body, and the back of the camera ...
you took it to a repairman showing him the film
and asked him to fix it .. but it was still scrwy ?
hope you didn't pay the guy !
hmmm
have you taped the window
and taped the actual back of the camera ?
if it isn't the bellows
the top doesn't communicate wtih the inside of the camera
it only leaves the back ...
==
i hate to say this but you might consider selling it and getting a new one if you can't fix it
sell it for what you paid and the CLA and just say it has a light leak
lightleaks can add character sometimes

I havent taped the window on the back of the camera or the back of the camera itself but that will probably be the next thing i do. It's just getting frustrating because I've already shot about 5 rolls of film to test.

 

[Dan Daniel]

As the film chamber moves in and out when focusing, there has to be some sort of light trap for those joints. Anyone know how they do this? Felt or foam? Or is it a mechanical design like a Rolleiflex rear door?

I bet if you stuffed a towel in the bellows from the front along the left side (from front) the problem would disappear. Have you spent a lot of time examining this joint for leaks? From both directions, in a dark room after you let your eyes adjust? It's a pretty small leak all in all so it's going to take the right angle and the right eye adaptation to dark for it to be obvious.

Although do check as carefully as you can the top plate from the inside of the film chamber with film holder removed at a variety of distances. There could be either a light shield or a screw missing that lets the viewfinder area leak in.

 

[noahsmith]

As the film chamber moves in and out when focusing, there has to be some sort of light trap for those joints. Anyone know how they do this? Felt or foam? Or is it a mechanical design like a Rolleiflex rear door?

I bet if you stuffed a towel in the bellows from the front along the left side (from front) the problem would disappear. Have you spent a lot of time examining this joint for leaks? From both directions, in a dark room after you let your eyes adjust? It's a pretty small leak all in all so it's going to take the right angle and the right eye adaptation to dark for it to be obvious.

Although do check as carefully as you can the top plate from the inside of the film chamber with film holder removed at a variety of distances. There could be either a light shield or a screw missing that lets the viewfinder area leak in.

I've attached two photos showing screw areas that seem to be empty, although it seems like they are empty on purpose?

• The first photo shows two empty screw areas on the bottom below each of the chrome rollers, only stars to show when you focus to infinity.
• The second photo is on the top area right behind the bellows, you can only see it when focused to the closest distance.

Thoughts?

 

[Dan Daniel]

I've attached two photos showing screw areas that seem to be empty, although it seems like they are empty on purpose?

• The first photo shows two empty screw areas on the bottom below each of the chrome rollers, only stars to show when you focus to infinity.
• The second photo is on the top area right behind the bellows, you can only see it when focused to the closest distance.

Thoughts?

The two holes in the second photo are inside the film chamber and I think that the leak is happening from the front/side in the chamber where the silver roller is.

The holes behind the chrome rollers are, well, behind. Meaning behind the film backing paper and the silver rollers. But....

Someone with a Mamiya-6 will have to compare their camera to what you have going on.

 

[noahsmith]

The two holes in the second photo are inside the film chamber and I think that the leak is happening from the front/side in the chamber where the silver roller is.

The holes behind the chrome rollers are, well, behind. Meaning behind the film backing paper and the silver rollers. But....

Someone with a Mamiya-6 will have to compare their camera to what you have going on.

@summicron1 can you confirm that your Mamiya Six has the same missing screws as shown in my two photos above?

 

[Daire Quinlan]

@summicron1 can you confirm that your Mamiya Six has the same missing screws as shown in my two photos above?

Mine has the two holes at the top in the same position as yours. Doesn't have the two holes at the bottom but I don't think it means much, it's an earlier (non automat) model

 

[shutterfinger]

Your light leak is likely in the yellow circled areas.


Anything other than total black in total darkness is a leak!

 

[noahsmith]

Your light leak is likely in the yellow circled areas.
View attachment 211580 View attachment 211581

Anything other than total black in total darkness is a leak!

I noticed something, when I shine a light into each corner of the film chamber facing towards the seam/wall that its connected to with the camera set to focus at its closest distance, you can see light coming through on the inside near the rollers that allow the camera to focus forward and backward.

I've attached photos for reference, the first two are showing what it looks like when i shine a light through the outside corner in the dark. The second set of photos is the area where light is coming through but in a brighter room so you can see better.

Is this normal? Could this be the leak or is this most likely not related?

 

[shutterfinger]

Now find a way to patch it that does not interfere with camera operation. Bonding a piece of black velvet, yarn, felt over the hole may work. I bet light from outside the camera is getting through also.
Edit:
Even if external light is not getting in any area of film not wound onto a spool in the chamber will get a secondary pin hole exposure which is likely what is happening.

 

[summicron1]

@summicron1 can you confirm that your Mamiya Six has the same missing screws as shown in my two photos above?

yeah, mine has the two holes, and i can see the ends of screws in them.

the light leaking in in those corners must be your problem -- somehow the shielding on the outside must have shifted/disappeared/kidnapped by aliens/been removed ... all i see in those corners is the eccentric cams that work the focus plane (very clever!) as I focus in and out.

If it doesn't interfere with the operation of the cams or the focal plane, some high tech version of chewing gum may be what you need. Interested to know how it happened...

 

[noahsmith]

Hi Everyone,

I'm happy to say that I finally found the source of the leak. I put tape over the inside of the window on the back of the camera and along the inside area over the hinge of the door and that got rid of the light leaks. That was quite a task figuring out where it was coming from, thanks a lot everyone for your help - I REALLY appreciate it!

 

[shutterfinger]

The ruby window in cameras should be as dark as a #25 Wratten filter or darker. Search the site for ruby windiw, its been discussed here before with recommendation for replacement material.

 

[summicron1]

Hi Everyone,

I'm happy to say that I finally found the source of the leak. I put tape over the inside of the window on the back of the camera and along the inside area over the hinge of the door and that got rid of the light leaks. That was quite a task figuring out where it was coming from, thanks a lot everyone for your help - I REALLY appreciate it!

YAY!!!!!!
Those are wonderful shooters — the range/viewfinder combined, plus the positions of the controls, are sperior to the Super Ikontas and the lens is every bit as good. Now go have fin with it.

 

[noahsmith]

YAY!!!!!!
Those are wonderful shooters — the range/viewfinder combined, plus the positions of the controls, are sperior to the Super Ikontas and the lens is every bit as good. Now go have fin with it.

I agree, it's been really fun to shoot with - here's a photo I took with it on Fuji Pro 400H - very glad there are no more light leaks!

 

[Russ Young]

This got my curiosity up and I retrieved my Mamiya 6 Automat I to have a look inside. Your image 7714 shows a bright wire shaped like ___/ \___ . When I look inside my camera, the bellows covers those long horizontals, only the angled part and the flat top can be seen. I'm wondering if your bellows is properly attached?
I've owned lots of cameras in the last 50 years. If Ihad to choose ONE non-battery-powered camera for the remainder of my days, it would without hesitation be this one.
Russ

 

[noahsmith]

Hi Everyone,

I'm back again having an issue with my Mamiya Six folder. I've attached images below, with arrows pointing to the issue. I'm noticing dark horizontal lines at the top of my negatives. You can only really see them well when you bring down the exposure of the image as I wasn't able to see them on the negative itself. Any thoughts on what this is? Thanks.

 

[Dan Daniel]

You certain that they are in the negative? Could be dirt in the calibration area of the (machine we cannot mention here). Flip negative in the holder and see if the lines stay in the same place of the (image system we are not to mention but is how we see most of what we see here)?

Include some info on what we are looking at- home developed? Printed? Sca..... oh geez, you know what I mean?