Mamiya RB67 lens - depth of field scale ring - please explain!

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Dazzer123

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Hi folks,

I'm new to medium format and Mamiya cameras!

I just shot my first roll on my recently acquired RB67 Pro SD and Sekor C 50mm lens.

My question: the lens has 4 rings on it:

Locking ring: this i understand
Aperture ring: this i understand
Shutter speed: this i understand
Depth of field scale ring: this i DON'T understand!

Could someone please explain the purpose of this ring to me?

So just to be clear, i'm talking about the ring that's furthest away from the camera body.

I guess part of the problem is that i can discern no difference in the viewfinder when moving this ring.

Thanks, hopefully, in advance!
 
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That ring is for adjusting the floating element inside the lens. For most purposes, you can leave it on infinity, but if you are close focusing, you will see an improvement to the edges of the image with it adjusted to the distance you're focused.
 

Alex Benjamin

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Hi folks,

I'm new to medium format and Mamiya cameras!

I just shot my first roll on my recently acquired RB67 Pro SD and Sekor C 50mm lens.

My question: the lens has 4 rings on it:

Locking ring: this i understand
Aperture ring: this i understand
Shutter speed: this i understand
Depth of field scale ring: this i DON'T understand!

Could someone please explain the purpose of this ring to me?

So just to be clear, i'm talking about the ring that's furthest away from the camera body.

I guess part of the problem is that i can discern no difference in the viewfinder when moving this ring.

Thanks, hopefully, in advance!

Yes, it's a bit confusing if you're coming from 35mm, on which focusing is done via the lens itself. It such case, the link between focus distance (or depth of field) and aperture is clear.

On the Mamiya, the focusing is done from the body, so you can't get immediate knowledge of your depth of field as you do on a 35mm camera, because distance is not given in relationship with your aperture. That why you can move that ring without if having any effect. It's your depth of field + hyperfocal distance calculator.

What you have to do with the Mamiya is first figure out distance by looking at the scale on the right side of the body (the one that also gives you exposure compensation values). Say this tells you your subject is at 5 meters. You then go to the depth of field scale and put the 5 in front of the red dot (on the last ring, that has the F-stop numbers). That tells you, for example, that at f/4.5, your focus is between 3.5 and 10 meters (well, on my 65mm lens, that's what it says. I don't have the 50mm).

This is essential is you want to do zone focusing (not that practical with the Mamiya, that said), but also to figure out depth of field when doing portraits or still life, if you don't have the lens manual around.

Also indicates hyperfocal distance of the lenses for each F-stops. Put the infinity sign in front of the F-stop you want, and if you look at its equivalent F-stop on the other side shows you from which distance to infinity you'll have acceptable focus.
 

MattKing

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Here are the instructions for the C version of the 50mm and 65mm lenses, from the lens brochure linked to on Mike Butkus' great orphancameras site - his requested donation is entirely reasonable: https://www.cameramanuals.org/mamiya_pdf/mamiya_rb67_interchange_lenses.pdf

1685486042365.png
 

Alex Benjamin

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Visual example. This shows a subject at 5 ft (5ft indicator of floating ring set on red dot) and the depth of field for each F-Stop at that distance.

For example, at F/11, focus is between 3.75ft and 7ft.

Capture d’écran, le 2023-05-30 à 18.32.19.png


BTW, only the 50mm and the 65mm lens have this extra floating element. Other lens have either a more traditional depth of field ring, such at the 90mm:

Capture d’écran, le 2023-05-30 à 18.41.50.png


Or a very awkwardly placed one, such as the 180mm (fantastic lens, but where that scale is placed is just not practical!)

Capture d’écran, le 2023-05-30 à 18.44.31.png
 

MattKing

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BTW, only the 50mm and the 65mm lens have this extra floating element ring. Other lens have either a more traditional depth of field ring, such at the 90mm:

The 140mm macro has a similar setup.
 

Alex Benjamin

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The 140mm macro has a similar setup.

Thanks Matt, I did not know that. Macro lens are off my radar. Maybe this one shouldn't be. My system jumps straight from 127mm to 180mm. Perhaps I should look at this 140mm as in-between instead of eyeing the 150 soft focus... 🤔
 

MattKing

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My 65mm +140mm tandem was my favorite combination before I sold my RB67.
The 140mm lens isn't particularly fast, and it does incorporate the additional floating element adjustment, but otherwise it functions just like all the other options.
Those two fields of view - roughly similar to 35mm and 80-85mm in the realm of 35mm film - suit my "eye".
 
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Dazzer123

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Many thanks guys!

I'm still struggling with this a little!

Could someone give me a hypothetical shooting example where twisting the ring would make any discernable difference in the viewfinder?

Because as yet i can see no change in the viewfinder, regardless of my focus distance!

Or is it the case that it's too subtle to see in the viewfinder (i'm using the prism viewfinder by the way)?
If so, is there really much to worry about? Should i just follow the instructions blindly on how to use it and not worry any more about it?
 

Ian C

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Mamiya RB67 and RZ67 lenses are made in two basic configurations. The majority are standard lenses. On these, the DOF ring is simply a convenient calculator that lets you quickly determine the approximate DOF (Depth of Field). It has no effect on the image seen in the viewfinder nor on the image recorded on film.

On the “Floating System” lenses the DOF ring serves two purposes. 1. It is a DOF calculator as in the standard lenses. 2. It moves an independently moving lens group (usually a cemented doublet) that serves as a field flattener.

The problem is, at very close focusing distances, some lens designs produce a spherically curved field that doesn’t agree with the flat film plane. This is most pronounced in the corners, especially at relatively large apertures. By moving the floating group to the appropriate position forward or back inside the lens barrel, the corners of the image are refined (the curvature is “flattened”) to better agree with the film plane. This essentially sharpens the image, most noticeably in the corners, where the spherical field curvature is most pronounced. The result is a more uniformly focused image, particularly into the corners.

This isn’t evident when viewing the image in the viewfinder due to the limits of resolution of the viewing system. But it’s a definite improvement in the image recorded on film. This has the greatest benefit when photographing VERY close subjects. For subjects of average distances, say, 2 meters to infinity, you can leave the float ring at the infinity setting and your corners will be sufficiently well-resolved. It’s useful for very close subjects. Otherwise, you can leave the float ring at infinity.

Many helicoid focusing lenses, such as those found on SLR cameras, have field flatteners built in. This is most common on wide-angle and zoom lenses. These are operated by turning the focusing ring so that you automatically position the field flattener unit to the correct position without thinking about it (or even knowing about it).

Instead of using a helicoid, the RB67 and RZ67 lenses focus by moving the lens mount panel forward and back to focus like a view camera. Thus, the lenses that Mamiya determined needed field flattening, require manual actuation to position the flattening unit.

You’d get the most benefit from this near the closest limits of focus. For example. If you were shooting a small, detailed flat subject, such as a drawing, etching, copying a photo, and so forth, the corners will be best resolved by using the float ring per the instructions in post #4.
 
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Dazzer123

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Ok, great!

I tend to mostly shoot distant objects and at a small aperture, so i think this whole thing is a non issue.

Seems mostly applicable in doing museum-like stuff, photographing paintings and books and stuff, right? But then you're not likely to use a 50mm for that?

If you're photographing (for example) flowers at a very close distance, with a big aperture, then your DOF is paper-thin, so some corner softness wouldn't bother me anyway.
 

MattKing

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This was done using either the 50mm or 65mm - probably the 65mm - with the floating ring.
It would have looked different in the print if I had set the ring differently:

47a-2019-08-12b-North 40-res-1080.jpg
 

Luckless

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This was done using either the 50mm or 65mm - probably the 65mm - with the floating ring.
It would have looked different in the print if I had set the ring differently:

View attachment 340245

Did you by any chance ever make a series of test shots showing the difference? I've read many comments and instructions telling me there is a difference, but I've never actually come across a post with detailed images to highlight the difference, and it isn't one I've been able to see on close inspection of the viewfinder while carefully adjusting it in controlled settings. And the handful of sites I've come across with more than one photo of the same scene and lighting with different floating ring settings had dead image links...

I've earmarked some of my film budget for the next few years to go towards spending rolls specifically on tests like this, but it would be nice to have an independent source to compare results against.
 

MattKing

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Did you by any chance ever make a series of test shots showing the difference?

No.
If I had bothered, this one probably would have:
12-White Cup - Medium - Brown -12-2020-02-14.jpg
Most of my use of the camera didn't involve subjects where flat field response without geometric distortion mattered much.
In fact, most of my photography doesn't involve subjects where flat field response without geometric distortion matters much.
This (not from the RB67) might be an example of something that might show it:
1685556015798.png
 

Axelwik

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I have a close friend who owns the Camera & Darkroom stores in Albuquerque and Santa Fe. He's become very tired of people coming in to ask how to operate their cameras when they haven't bothered to read the instruction manual.
 

MCB18

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Hi folks,

I'm new to medium format and Mamiya cameras!

I just shot my first roll on my recently acquired RB67 Pro SD and Sekor C 50mm lens.

My question: the lens has 4 rings on it:

Locking ring: this i understand
Aperture ring: this i understand
Shutter speed: this i understand
Depth of field scale ring: this i DON'T understand!

Could someone please explain the purpose of this ring to me?

So just to be clear, i'm talking about the ring that's furthest away from the camera body.

I guess part of the problem is that i can discern no difference in the viewfinder when moving this ring.

Thanks, hopefully, in advance!

Ok, so I think others have mentioned how to use this ring reasonably well, however, I will say this: it is not worth trying to use in my opinion. Just get the best focus you can, and if you’re not sure if your DoF is going to cover what needs to be in focus, use the DoF preview (small lever on right side of lens, lined up sort of with the aperture ring).

I have a close friend who owns the Camera & Darkroom stores in Albuquerque and Santa Fe. He's become very tired of people coming in to ask how to operate their cameras when they haven't bothered to read the instruction manual.

Huh, small world! I’ve been in there to buy some film! Back then, you could get a roll of 120 Ektar for $12, and I thought the Pentax 67II in the store was my future MF camera. Oh how times have changed lol
 

Axelwik

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Huh, small world! I’ve been in there to buy some film! Back then, you could get a roll of 120 Ektar for $12, and I thought the Pentax 67II in the store was my future MF camera. Oh how times have changed lol
Film prices are catching up with the reality of production costs I suppose. Still cheaper than digital when one considers the constant march of planned obsolescence in the digital world.
 
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