Mamiya m645 Super Questions

[brofkand]

Hello all,

I am looking to make the move from 35mm to medium format. Currently on my local Craigslist a gentleman is selling a Mamiya m645 Super with a 75-150mm lens for $275. I would much rather have a 75mm prime lens, but the only lens he offers is the 75-150. I don't believe a prism is included with the kit. This is the description he gave: Price includes camera body and lens, strap, lens hoods and manual. From the pictures, it seems to be in excellent condition.

My question is, is this the system I should look into? I am thinking of either buying this system or a Pentax 645 with a 75mm lens for roughly the same money from KEH (used and of BGN quality).

Is $275 for the Mamiya a good buy? I may be able to talk him down, but I don't want to if that is a fair value for the kit. Please help!


Thanks so much!

 

[Travis Nunn]

You'll need a film back also.

If you look at KEH (www.keh.com) you can get a complete kit in EX condition with a 80mm lens, power drive and an AE prism for $419, only about $144 more than what you are looking at. Considering a film back will cost $40-$70 a prism will cost you around $140 or more (less if you don't want a metered prism) and a power drive (not really necessary) will cost $50 or more I think you'd be better off doing a little shopping around unless he really drops the price a lot for you. KEH also gives you a 14 day no questions asked warranty.

I don't work for KEH, I've just found them to be a great place to buy camera gear.

 

[Dennis S]

A bit too high. The 75-150 lens with the zoom is not fast lens. It would be good for outdoor shots. Without a finder and film back could run extra $. I picked up the m645 Super a while ago and I am quite happy with the results. This was also my first medium format camera.

 

[keithwms]

The 75-150 is probably my least favourite lens for the m645 system- you will almost certainly want a fast prime very soon.

 

[brofkand]

So it looks as though I probably won't go for this kit. The body is something I like a lot, but I would have to buy a prism and another lens for it, which would probably put it up in the KEH range anyway. I don't want the zoom lens, what I really want is a fast (2.8 or so) 75mm lens.

A 75-150mm 4.5 (which is the lens in the kit) is too slow.

 

[Pumal]

An 80mm and a 45mm; both 1:2.8 is what you want.

 

[brofkand]

What do you make of the cryptic explanations that Adorama puts on its used equipment? For example, this listing: Dead Link Removed

What does it even mean?

 

[Travis Nunn]

There are several different M645 bodies, it doesn't say which it is.
80mm f/2.8 lens
Prism (probably not metered)
120-bk is a Film back for 120 film

 

[Leighgion]

Adorama is rather poor about used item details, but I've gotten some skill in interpreting their shorthand.

I'd read that one as an original M645 body, 80mm f2.8, non-metered prism (they'd specify AE for a metering one) and a 120 insert. I say insert, because it wasn't until the Super that the M645 line got interchangeable backs.

If your budget can swing Adorama or Keh's prices, I'd heartily recommending going to a Super or Pro/Pro TL. Interchangeable film backs are great.

 

[Greg_E]

You should be able to get a whole 645 Super or pro system on ebay for $250. It would probably only come with the 80mm lens, but all the rest should be decent.

One link that ends really soon so you can see the ending price.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Mamiya-645-Pro_...trkparms=65:12|66:2|39:1|72:1234|293:1|294:50

 

[keithwms]

My advice would be to get the full kit and kaboodle from KEH. If it doesn't work for you, send it back and get another, and keep that going until you find your soul mate.

 

[Rolleijoe]

Interesting thread. I've been using my M645Pro for a little over a year now, as replacement for 135. Now comes a real need for another lens (currently have 55, 80, & 210). Hadn't even considered Adorama or B&H cause I've been happy these past years with KEH. But there does seem to be a substantial price difference between the two.

 

[Greg_E]

There is a guy in Europe that has better prices on new Mamiya stuff, he's been mentioned a few times in these forums but I can't remember his store's name.

 

[borisdeswan]

Whatever source you do choose ( I've dealt with both keh and Adorama with complete success) I'd encourage you to opt for Mamiya pro or Pro tl, having found that rugedness in those models far exceeds that of the super models, which are older anyway. Definetely the recomended optic is an 80 mm 2.8 and later perhaps your good 45 and 150.If you scour the web auction site you can find even new lenses like the 80 mm for $99.00 or
$ 119.00 and a 150 I saw listed not long ago for around $140.00. I'm talking new lenses. An excellent version in Keh sometimes differs from a new lens in that you don't get a box. Good luck.

 

[brofkand]

Thanks for all the help in this thread. The problem I have with Adorama is they are so cryptic as to what you get. That doesn't instill confidence to me. I bought a Canon Rebel G from them that was rated G but I think should have been rated bargain. Paint chips, plastic portions broken off, scratches, etc. I'll likely not buy used equipment from them anymore.

How does the Pentax 645 system rate to the Mamiya? Obviously it isn't as configurable, but I'm not sure that's such a big deal. As long as I am shooting 645 on a reliable body with a sharp lens, I don't know if I'll need to switch out prisms or winders. What do you think? The Pentax system is cheaper than the Mamiya (at least on KEH, not sure about ebay or the like).

 

[keithwms]

Do you need/want interchangeable backs?

 

[brofkand]

At this time, I can't see interchangeable backs being necessary.

I've never used a medium format camera other than a holga or old box camera, and in those it isn't a big deal to change rolls. Of course, I'm not in a studio setting.

Would it be nice to have a camera that I can expand as time goes on? Yes, which is why I'm leaning toward the Mamiya.

But, I could save a bit of money going with a less versatile system that will still yield excellent results now by going with the Pentax system.

 

[keithwms]

Well then, I'd say go with the system that will make you feel productive with your photography. Don't concern yourself with hypotheticals, you'll have plenty of time to think about those at some later point, and you may well have less limited resources then too. Just enjoy your photography now. Gear is just gear.

 

[brofkand]

Last night I placed an order at KEH for an M645 1000s (BGN condition), 80 2.8 (BGN), Microprism spot focusing screen (I prefer those to the rangefinder screens; I'm just as accurate and the rangefinders are a nuisance to me when shooting something that doesn't line up with the rangefinder, and a CdS prism with a broken meter. I don't really need a meter. If I need one in the future, it's trivial to buy a new prism later and slap it on.

I can't think of anything else I'll need (besides film, obviously). What kind of battery does the camera need, and where can it be purchased (Wal-Mart, radio shack, etc)? Do I even need a battery without having a meter?

Also, is it more feasible to try and repair the meter (could be some kind of battery leakage preventing a good ground, or could be truly broken, I won't know until I see it) or just buy a new prism?

Oh, and the total cost, including $13 shipping from Marietta, GA to Salisbury, NC was less than $190. I was exstatic when I saw the price.

Thanks for everyone's help with my choice. For not much less, I could have gotten the Pentax system, but the Mamiya is much more professional and much more expandable. I can add a metering prism, sports finder, waistlevel finder, motor drive, etc etc etc to the Mamiya later on. I think it's a great system to invest in, at least for me.

 

[Paul Sorensen]

It uses a 6v PX28 or equivalent. I have gotten them at Radio Shack and Target, and I am sure lots of other places I can't remember. No idea about meter repair. KEH does have a repair shop, they likely did check it out to see if it was worth their time to try to repair it and decided it wasn't, so I would assume it is not likely worth the trouble, but that is just a guess.

Edit: I am finding conflicting information regarding whether lithium batteries are okay in the 1000s, hopefully someone else knows more.

 

[brofkand]

I have a PDF for the camera, and it specifies silver. It doesn't say lithium batteries don't work, it simply doesn't mention them at all.

Is there a technical difference to the camera? I'd suppose Lithium and Silver chemistries output slightly different voltages which may affect metering and/or shutter speeds? I don't know; it would seem to me that there wouldn't be a difference but I will bow to the experts here that know better than I do.

 

[MattKing]

When Mamiya used to maintain their Mamiya User Group internet presence, they included a page that listed which cameras were compatible with the Lithium batteries, and which were not. IIRC, most of the older models were not, but I didn't pay a lot of attention, because both the PX28 alkaline and the PX28 silver oxide work in my cameras.

There are a lot of sources on the internet for the alkaline versions - it seems they are used in dog collars of some type??

Here is one example:

http://www.24hrbatteries.com/shop/pcs-bulk-pack-vinnic-battery-l1325-28a-a544-px28a-544a-4lr44-rfa18-p-96.html

I've bought from them once, and I still have lots.

Generally though, I recommend silver oxide.

Matt

P.S. I note that the manual does indicate that the alkaline version is an option for the 1000S.

 

[Greg_E]

I use the Duracel PX28Lthat you can buy at most drug stores and many discount stores (walmart, etc.). no issues so far but I'm not trying to use the meter.

 

[claudermilk]

Last night I placed an order at KEH for an M645 1000s (BGN condition), 80 2.8 (BGN), Microprism spot focusing screen (I prefer those to the rangefinder screens; I'm just as accurate and the rangefinders are a nuisance to me when shooting something that doesn't line up with the rangefinder, and a CdS prism with a broken meter. I don't really need a meter. If I need one in the future, it's trivial to buy a new prism later and slap it on.

I can't think of anything else I'll need (besides film, obviously). What kind of battery does the camera need, and where can it be purchased (Wal-Mart, radio shack, etc)? Do I even need a battery without having a meter?

Also, is it more feasible to try and repair the meter (could be some kind of battery leakage preventing a good ground, or could be truly broken, I won't know until I see it) or just buy a new prism?

Oh, and the total cost, including $13 shipping from Marietta, GA to Salisbury, NC was less than $190. I was exstatic when I saw the price.

Thanks for everyone's help with my choice. For not much less, I could have gotten the Pentax system, but the Mamiya is much more professional and much more expandable. I can add a metering prism, sports finder, waistlevel finder, motor drive, etc etc etc to the Mamiya later on. I think it's a great system to invest in, at least for me.

Did you get a back for it? That's kind of necessary.

The body does need a battery, the one in my Super body is a 4G13. I don't know how hard those are to get--the Super came with it & I bought the battery with my Pro body from KEH.

I find that having one of each (finder, prism & metered prism) I end up using the plain old finder most of the time along with my Sekonic meter. For me it's easier focusing & I like that big image to look at while composing & focusing.

 

[Paul Sorensen]

Did you get a back for it? That's kind of necessary.

He got a 1000s, they do not have a removable back.