Mamiya calling it quits in the camera biz???

[kunihiko]

The price is 100,000,000yen

 

[roteague]

Scanning 120 film produces great images on par with other 12 and 16 MP cameras,

You must have a cheap scanner if that is all you are getting.

 

[HerrBremerhaven]

Greetings APUG,

Someone was nice enough to post an article, with an interpretation of the Japanese news release at:

http://www.photoscala.com/node/view/1276

Anyone know anything about this Cosmo company? Could a future Mamiya actually be branded a Cosmo?

Looks like the sale / exchange of stock is set to happen in September 2006. If I recall correctly, there is supposed to be ten years of service on new products once a product line is discontinued in the US. That would mean that many working professionals still using RB/RZ67s could get them officially serviced and repaired until at least 2016.

I have to agree with some comments about US pricing. I know few Mamiya users who bought much of anything brand new, and the few that did often got theirs overseas. Perhaps this will help the used market prices of Mamiya gear, which might help some of us on a tighter budget.

Hasselblad was bought by Shriro, their largest distributer, and Fuji helps produce the H series. Rollei just recently split their medium format 6000 series off to Franke & Heidecke, who recently signed a distribution and cooperation agreement with Komamura (Horseman). A few years ago I thought ALPA was a high priced niche product, but suddenly it seems that more little medium format niches are appearing, depending upon what this Cosmo company does with Mamiya. I guess if I worry about anything in this, it would be that new medium gear prices end up going much higher. I guess it will be wait and see for now.

There are still good signs of medium format products, but I wonder about the pricing. Sure, I would like to get an ALPA, or a new Rollei, but the reality is that used will still be a better deal for my budget.

Ciao!

Gordon

 

[kunihiko]

Could a future Mamiya actually be branded a Cosmo?

The news in the Mamiya-OP web site says that Mamiya-OP is going to sell their optical related business including the Mamiya K.K.(subsidiary) and the brand name "Mamiya". Mamiya K.K. will be liquidated after the disposal, Cosmo Digital Imaging will provide after-sales.
I guess the name "Mamiya" is going to survive(for a while).

I don't know much about the Cosmo Digital Imaging. It's a new(since 2006.03.15!) digital technology subsidiary of the Cosmos Scientific Systems, Inc (an IT company). It's hard to imagine that they handle film cameras.

Mamiya news release(Japanese)
http://www.mamiya-op.co.jp/home/company/news2006_0421_j.pdf

Cosmos Scientific Systems, Inc. (Japanese)
http://www.cosmos.jp/

 

[firecracker]

Apparently their new digital camera wasn't selling well, according the statement.

 

[Brac]

I think we are ignoring the bigger, sadder issue: how much longer will 120 film be available for purchase and process before it goes the way of Mamiya, Contax, Minolta, and Nikon Film cameras? Scanning 120 film produces great images on par with other 12 and 16 MP cameras, not to mention the incredible prints we get from negatives to paper in traditional developing.

I think the answer is that 120 film will be available for decades to come. You can still get film for 110, 127, & 126 even if you have to get it mail order. As for processing, again all these formats can still be processed though you have to hunt round a bit to find a lab but they are out there. The market is inevitably shaking down but I believe it will stabilise. Some labs will go out of business but that will mean more work for those who remain.

 

[digiconvert]

(Film) camera manufactures demise ?

Going off on a tangent and probably off topic (so if I get expunged I know why !) does this reflect a trend for camera manufacturers to become less prevelant in the image capture market ? Pentax, Konica, Mamiya - the list now includes spome BIG names . Soon only Canon and Nikon will remain as camera manufaturers (?) and they are clearly heading down the consumer path with high spec 'amateur' SLRs, using the Pro line almost as an advertising ruse (we make the D1 so we must be good type of line- ages old marketing I know).
The vast majority of photographers want a 6 x 4 at best 90% of the time and these days a file to send by e-mail or mms or store on the 'phone is enough for their needs, those who want something more than a 'photo of aunty Jane at the weding or little Tommy at the beach havealways been a minority. For the most part image capture will increasingly be about electronics not optics, maybe we have a lot more in common with the D1/D5 users than we sometimes admit (let the flames begin ) and maybe their cameras will become even more of a niche market than they already are.
Food for thought, or the ramblings of a mad Englishman ?
Cheers CJB

 

[firecracker]

Soon only Canon and Nikon will remain as camera manufaturers (?) and they are clearly heading down the consumer path with high spec 'amateur' SLRs, using the Pro line almost as an advertising ruse (we make the D1 so we must be good type of line- ages old marketing I know).

I think Sony will, if they sell enough of their video game and mp3 products to survive (and of course, lay off tens of thousands more of its employees around the world).

 

[Nick Zentena]

Nikons basically bailed also. Everybody noticed they killed most film cameras but people didn't notice they killed a whole bunch of digital cameras also. IIRC thier line up right now looks like low end P&S and digital SLRs. That's a big hole in the middle.

 

[David Brown]

I think we are ignoring the bigger, sadder issue: how much longer will 120 film be available for purchase and process before it goes the way of Mamiya, Contax, Minolta, and Nikon Film cameras? ...

Nothing beats the feeling of using the tank like Mamiya cameras ...

Agreed (on the last statement above). I have a Mamiya TLR, and an M645. And I'm considering buying an RB. Nothing I own was bought new, and most of it was bought way before the current, um, ... d***** era. This stuff is plentiful in the used market, and will remain so for a long time. I'm using 30 year old MF stuff (also Kowa and Fuji) and a lot of folks use MF gear older than that!

As other posters have said, 120 cameras are harder to get new, but film is not and won't be. The future is not that bleak!

Having said all this upbeat stuff, though; isn't Fuji out of the MF business, too?

Cheers

 

[Gibran]

Actually, Fuji is one of the largest players behind the scenes as they make all the Hasselblad H series lenses, backs and Prisms.

Agreed (on the last statement above). I have a Mamiya TLR, and an M645. And I'm considering buying an RB. Nothing I own was bought new, and most of it was bought way before the current, um, ... d***** era. This stuff is plentiful in the used market, and will remain so for a long time. I'm using 30 year old MF stuff (also Kowa and Fuji) and a lot of folks use MF gear older than that!

As other posters have said, 120 cameras are harder to get new, but film is not and won't be. The future is not that bleak!

Having said all this upbeat stuff, though; isn't Fuji out of the MF business, too?

Cheers

 

[HerrBremerhaven]

Cosmos Scientific Systems, Inc. (Japanese)
http://www.cosmos.jp/

Thanks kunihiko,

Nice to have a link, though it gives me slightly more confusion. Do you think perhaps Cosmos might want the lens making technology, or might there be a scientific application in something Mamiya do well? There must be some reason for them to spend money on Mamiya.

Ciao!

Gordon

 

[HerrBremerhaven]

Having said all this upbeat stuff, though; isn't Fuji out of the MF business, too?

Good morning David Brown,

Actually, Fuji make a version of the Hasselblad H series for their home (Japan) market. They are also still making the GX680, a very large 6x8 camera. I think they might still be making the TX2, which is their version of the Hasselblad XPan II, though I am not certain on that.

On another good note Fujinon large format lenses are still being made. They also make some unusual compact 35 mm cameras, though I think most of those are home market only.

Also, I liked your meniton about using old medium format. The oldest camera I have that I still use is a 1937 AGFA Jsolette, that can do 6x4.5 and 6x6. It still works great, and I have even exhibited prints from images I captured using it.

Probably a huge guess here, but I think that the large amount of used film gear (not just medium format) has made an impact on new film camera sales. There is lots of good quality used gear on the market, and at prices far below anything one can get new.

Ciao!

Gordon

 

[snegron]

You must have a cheap scanner if that is all you are getting.

Not really, it's an Epson 4870. The scans are good (some tweaking required in PS), but higher resolution scans take a very long time even though I am using a firewire connection. Therefore, I only scan the images I really like from 120 frames instead of batch scanning. In my particular case it is not a time efficient method. It is so much easier to just have the lab do the printing.

 

[firecracker]

Thanks kunihiko,

Nice to have a link, though it gives me slightly more confusion. Do you think perhaps Cosmos might want the lens making technology, or might there be a scientific application in something Mamiya do well? There must be some reason for them to spend money on Mamiya.

Ciao!

Gordon

http://www.mamiya-op.co.jp/home/electronics/ele02.htm

I wonder if this what the Cosmo is going after. It's the electronics division of Mamiya group that holds the techology for security equipment.

It's probably much like Carlyle group that became top stock holder for Contax/Kyocera group and started investing more on the security cameras, etc.

Just a thought.

 

[firecracker]

The lens technology is not perhaps worth the money, but it comes in a package. Otherwise, Cosina could've gotten huge.

 

[ingnes]

However, Nikon's profits are increasing, and they just increased their profit forecast for this and next financial year. Not long ago Nikon were struggling financially. The fact that they make money now is mainly due to the DSLR market. P&S prices are so low now, that there's very little money in it.

Brgds
Ingmar

 

[Samuel B]

Going off on a tangent and probably off topic (so if I get expunged I know why !) does this reflect a trend for camera manufacturers to become less prevelant in the image capture market ? Pentax, Konica, Mamiya - the list now includes spome BIG names . Soon only Canon and Nikon will remain as camera manufaturers (?) and they are clearly heading down the consumer path with high spec 'amateur' SLRs, using the Pro line almost as an advertising ruse (we make the D1 so we must be good type of line- ages old marketing I know).

I think your'e right here. d***tal cameras are not photographic equipment they are now a part of "consumer electronics", they get sold along with washing machines and Hi - Fi systems. Companies such as Samsung, Sony etc. will probably become the dominant players in this market.

To get back to the topic, it's sad to see another camera manufacturer disappear, but with second hand prices as they are, I doubt there would be many people willing to buy new MF stuff right now.

 

[firecracker]

By the way, another division of Mamiya is for manufacturing golf clubs? Anyone interested in investing for that?

 

[Samuel B]

Golf clubs is obviously the future! I wonder if Konica Minolta make golf balls?

 

[HerrBremerhaven]

http://www.mamiya-op.co.jp/home/electronics/ele02.htm

. . . . . . . . It's the electronics division of Mamiya group that holds the techology for security equipment. . . . . . . . . .

Just a thought.

Wow . . . interesting thought. I never knew they had that division. I had seen Mamiya branded golf clubs, but never knew about this.

I guess more speculation . . . perhaps Mamiya will not sell a partial division, and requires Cosmos to get all or nothing. Seems I read in another news item that the deal has to be approved by the stockholders in June.

It gets weirder too, with MAC (in United States) merging with an advertising agency. Of course, MAC also import Sekonic, TOYO, and a few other photography items, not just Mamiya.

Ciao!

Gordon

 

[Gibran]

Is it possible that reports of the end of Mamiya Cameras have been greatly exageratted? This official Mamiya PDF seems to indicate that the Mamiya Camera business will continue just under new ownership, not that the company will be "gutted" so to speak just for Security Technology.

http://www.mamiya.com/assets/pdfs/Mamiya_Cosmo_Digital.pdf

 

[firecracker]

Wow . . . interesting thought. I never knew they had that division. I had seen Mamiya branded golf clubs, but never knew about this.

I guess more speculation . . . perhaps Mamiya will not sell a partial division, and requires Cosmos to get all or nothing. Seems I read in another news item that the deal has to be approved by the stockholders in June.

It gets weirder too, with MAC (in United States) merging with an advertising agency. Of course, MAC also import Sekonic, TOYO, and a few other photography items, not just Mamiya.

Ciao!

Gordon

I don't know what the real motive is, but the electronics division of Mamiya makes internal products that are used in many electrical industrial devices, such as electrical pachinko machines (Japanese pinball for gambling), vender machines, and so on.

Meanwhile, the Cosmo makes software programs for ATM machines, etc.

Their common interest is to protect the machines from fraud and errors, and that seems to make a perfect match. That's what I meant "security."

Also, Mamiya's another division is for manufacturing industrial measuring instruments, which is probably why the company can design and produce golf clubs, camera bodies, lenses, etc.

And I think it's the same Mamiya that got into auto racing in the past. There was a team at least, though I don't recall which type it was. I could be totally wrong, though.

I'm just guessing as much as you can.

 

[firecracker]

Is it possible that reports of the end of Mamiya Cameras have been greatly exageratted? This official Mamiya PDF seems to indicate that the Mamiya Camera business will continue just under new ownership, not that the company will be "gutted" so to speak just for Security Technology.

http://www.mamiya.com/assets/pdfs/Mamiya_Cosmo_Digital.pdf

Please the other new comment I've made. My explanation was not sufficient in the earlier comment. I apologize.

But it was true that as soon as Carlyle group became top stockholder for the Contax/Kyocera group, the first thing I heard was the their pulling out of the photography camera business. I just hope that's not what's going to happen this time. I'm still a bit hallucinated by that.

 

[DeanC]

Or Europe for that matter. For the last few years, I suspect Robert White had a pretty good business selling M7's to the US.

So I just sent MAC email asking them what was up with the crazy US pricing and telling them unequivocally that if I could get a new Pro-TL in the US for Robert White's prices that I'd buy it tomorrow, but that given their pricing there's no way that new is worth the premium over used. I'll pass on any response they send.