Mamiya C220 - diagonal scrape lines on negatives?

[stevenisr]

Hey everyone--

I just purchased a Mamiya C220 and am loving the camera overall. I keep getting diagonal lines scraped into the negatives and I'm unable to troubleshoot what could be causing it. I've only shot two rolls of film--both look pretty bad because of spent developing chemicals (so don't mind the awful photo)--but I'm getting consistent diagonal lines on almost every negative in the same exact location on each negative. I develop my own film and have never had this issue before, so I can't imagine that it would be something that I'm doing during developing. And I've checked all over inside the Mamiya body, and there doesn't seem to be anything sticking out that would cause this. Has anyone had this issue or a similar issue before? Any clue what it could be?
Thanks!!

 

[stevenisr]

Here is another sample photo...

 

[MattKing]

Try as I might, I can't see the diagonal lines - can you highlight them or otherwise draw our attention to them?
What type of film is this - negative film or transparency film?
May we see backlit photos of the film itself, rather than scans?
Can you see the lines in the film, or do you only see them in the scans?

 

[shutterfinger]

Show us a picture of the negatives including the rebate area not scans from the negatives.

 

[Tel]

I can just make them out if I enlarge the picture. They are mostly vertical but angled slightly and appear not to be entirely straight lines as you would expect if the camera was scratching the film. Is it possible they're caused by a scratch or mark on the scanner glass?

 

[grahamp]

If it is the same location on each frame, and at an angle to the direction of film travel, it is probably a scanner artifact. It is rare for handling issues during processing to be repeated on multiple frames consistently. Film transport scratches are parallel to the direction of film travel through the camera, and generally run over the length of several frames. Check the film directly with a good magnifier.

 

[shutterfinger]

They are mostly vertical but angled slightly and appear not to be entirely straight lines as you would expect if the camera was scratching the film. Is it possible they're caused by a scratch or mark on the scanner glass?

If it is the same location on each frame, and at an angle to the direction of film travel, it is probably a scanner artifact. It is rare for handling issues during processing to be repeated on multiple frames consistently. Film transport scratches are parallel to the direction of film travel through the camera, and generally run over the length of several frames. Check the film directly with a good magnifier.

Read the initial post.

I keep getting diagonal lines scraped into the negatives and I'm unable to troubleshoot what could be causing it.

I want to see the negatives or a picture of them. There are camera wear possibilities causing them.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Read the initial post.

I want to see the negatives or a picture of them. There are camera wear possibilities causing them.

I don't understand how the camera could cause diagonal scratches like this. My vote is for the scanner as well.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Can't see them ..

 

[grat]

I can see them (barely). Don't think it's a scanner issue (those tend to be colorful, thin, straight lines either horizontal or vertical). Don't know how it could be a camera issue-- it would have to be something moving across the film as the film is being wound.

That leaves something happened during processing. What equipment are you using to develop?

 

[foc]

As already has been suggested, if the OP can provide a picture like this, it could help solve the problem.

 

[JensH]

Hi,

may be there is something inside the camera, like a human hair or so...
So a cleaning would help.

Best
Jens

 

[grat]

This may help:

 

[Donald Qualls]

I had a scratch on the glass in my old scanner that would produce marks very much like that one -- only curved. It looked like a hair or a scratch on the negative, except it was always on the last frame on the second 120 negative holder.

Whatever that is, it's scattering light. An emulsion side scratch on the negative would look dark in the positive -- and seeing it the same place on more than one negative, exactly the same mark, means it's on the scanner glass.

 

[markjwyatt]

How are you digitizing them? If DSLR, could be something on the sensor too.

 

[Donald Qualls]

How are you digitizing them? If DSLR, could be something on the sensor too.

Or on the light source/diffuser...

 

[markjwyatt]

Or on the light source/diffuser...

True. I have seen that on my Durst slide copier (also).

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I can see them (barely). Don't think it's a scanner issue (those tend to be colorful, thin, straight lines either horizontal or vertical). Don't know how it could be a camera issue-- it would have to be something moving across the film as the film is being wound.

That leaves something happened during processing. What equipment are you using to develop?

I was thinking maybe a scratch on the scanner's glass or something.

 

[shutterfinger]

A burr on a transport roller with excessive end play could leave a diagonal scratch on the film with 1mm to 2mm deviation. A scratch on the emulsion side will be clear making a black line in the scan or print, pressure on the backing paper or creasing the film leaves a dark line which scans or prints as white. Color lines in a scan is caused by scanner glass, mirrors, lens, or sensor that need cleaning.
Lines in a positive print or scan from a negative that is not on the negative is from the printing or scanning.

 

[stevenisr]

Wow, thanks everyone so much for the input! And thanks to grat for the zoomed in image! It's been a hectic week at work and hadn't been able to keep up on this thread.
Anyway, I'll upload an image of the negatives later today, but it's almost impossible for me to see the marks with my eye--so we'll see how that turns out.
A burr on the transport roller was what I was thinking as well, but I can't seem to feel it with my finger. I have a couple of years experience of processing my own film, and have never had this issue before--so while I am certainly not an expert nor prone to mistakes--I think it's unlikely that it's a mishandling error. And I say that with confidence because the same diagonal lines show up in the same exact location of the negative on the first roll of film I shot with the c220 (the images above are from my second roll of film through the c220). And I haven't had this issue with any other medium format camera.
I use the plastic paterson reel and tanks for developing and an epson flatbed for scanning.

 

[stevenisr]

Actually, now that I'm looking at my scanner, I am wondering if it is a scratch on the glass. I can see a couple of small scratches, but cannot make out this particular diagonal line. I think I'll try to rescan the negatives and move them around slightly to see if that scratch shows up again. That would make a lot of sense since the scratch is only showing up on some of my negatives but not every single one. Thanks for all of the brainstorming everyone!

 

[stevenisr]

Ok, I just rescanned that mushroom negative--the line showed up again. Then I flipped the negatives upside down in the negative holder the line disappeared. So I scanned the negative in the position of the original scan, and there was the scratch again. So it seems the culprit must be a scratch on the scanner glass. Thanks so much everyone for your help! Anyone have any recommendations to how to fix this? Other than moving my negatives around when I scan? This scanner isn't even a year old and I'm always cautious using it--but the plastic negative holder is what probably scratched it from moving it around into position. I assume there is no way to fix this unless epson would replace the scanner. I've been considering going the DSLR scanning route, so maybe this will push me to get a macro lens for my dslr.

 

[Donald Qualls]

So it seems the culprit must be a scratch on the scanner glass.

Been there, done that, wore out the T-shirt already.

If it's an Epson and it was new that recently, it's likely Epson can replace the glass for significantly less than the cost of a new scanner. It's possible you can do it yourself, if you're fairly handy with tools.

 

[Tel]

I think you've found the cause. I'm on my third scanner glass (Epson 700, about six or seven yers old). It couldn't have been the camera's transport rollers anyway: the circumference of these is a tiny fraction of the height of a 6x6 frame, and would have made a repeating pattern rather than a single long scratch. The scanner has to be the culprit. And there must be some plastic burr(s) on one of your carriers that scratches the glass. I'm guessing there's a coating on the glass the scratches easily. Gotta take a close look at my carriers now....

 

[Donald Qualls]

Plastic carriers shouldn't be hard enough to scratch even an antireflection coating, but they can also drag a piece of grit on the glass, then lose it and you'll never know it was there (except you see its trail). With my (brand new a couple months ago) Epson V850, I try to put the alignment pins in their sockets first, then drop the carrier straight down onto the glass. Over time, I'm sure it'll get scratched -- and it'll be right in the middle of the 4x5 window, or under one of the 120 slots...