Mamiya 7 vs Pentax 67

[baachitraka]

Pentacon Six TL (after CLA and two-stage release of shutter): 50mm Flektogon, Biometar 120mm & 180mm sonnar (bit heavy but a stunner)

 

[EdSawyer]

Mamiya 7 is the best choice here. I have an RZ67 kit also, and agree that it's a bit heavy, but it's very shootable handheld. In fact that's the only way I use mine nearly 100% of the time. WIth the L-grip it is really pretty ergonomic, all things considered. That said the Mamiya 7 is also better at handheld and wide-angle stuff than the RZ.

 

[flavio81]

(...)
I currently own a Mamiya RZ67 Pro II with a 110mm and 65mm and AE prism finder. The camera is amazing, one of the best camera systems I’ve ever used and the images are amazing. I love the 6x7 format. I’ve been shooting a lot more lately, however, and have come to discover that my preferences as a photographer are much more inclined to documentary/handheld styles, and RZ systems,

Hi

My take on it is the following.

If the RZ67 is too heavy, you should try it with a waist level viewfinder, which is much much lighter than the prism finder, and with a 127mm lens, which is IMO the lightest and most compact. Or with a RB-series 127/3.8C which is even more compact IMO.

My RB67 i have used handheld lots of time out in the street with no problem. I also owned a Pentax 67 (mid 1980s model). I have handled a Mamiya 7.

But then, back to the question you make: Mamiya 7 versus Pentax 67:

Glass: Both brands make world-class glass. In theory the lenses for the mamiya are the sharpest but in reality that difference will only be visible if you get a 100x microscope and take a look at the negatives via the microscope. For practical purposes they are all excellent and sharp lenses. By the way, the Pentax 105/2.4 is not only very fast, it also has really beautiful bokeh and all SMC lenses have very good color saturation.

Now, you are comparing a Rangefinder versus a SLR; so also consider the pros and cons about them.

My two cents are:

- The Mamiya RZ67 is far easier to focus than the Pentax 67. The Pentax is hard on the eyes, and i have perfect eyesight, mind you. With the P67 the focus point is not so easy to see. The Mamiya 7 is really easy to focus, so i would rank them:

RZ67/RB67 and Mamiya 7 (tie) > Pentax 67.

- Pentax 67 mirror and shutter slap is an issue for low (below 1/60) speeds, unless you use the big wooden handle which seems to help. Mamiya RB and RZ are world famous for the practical absence of mirror slap effects. The Mamiya 7 has no mirror.

- Pentax 67 syncs with flash at 1/30. This might be an issue. But there are leaf shutter lenses for the Pentax which will sync at all speeds and probably also will overcome any shutter vibration issues (!)

- Pentax 67 is a tank, really sturdy except for the film advance which, if you treat gently, will give no problems.

- Pentax 67 is very ergonomic on the hands but you typically use it at eye level, which for me was more tiring than having to operate the (heavier) RB67 at waist level.

My recommendation will be, take a look at the Pentax 67II which seems to be an improved machine. Also, consider if you really need SLR (reflex) viewing. And try creating your lighter-weight version of the RZ.

 

[jm3795]

I have both the Mamiya 7II and the Pentax 67II. I prefer the Pentax since it has a much greater lens selection. Lenses are generally sharp across the board and much more affordable than the Mamiya options. If you're planning on doing portrait work, forget about the Mamiya imo, the Pentax has some amazing glass for portraits.

 

[chipphoto]

I used to own a Pentax 67 and still own a Mamiya 7. The Pentax is really heavy and not easily hand held. The M7 is a wonderful travel camera,but limited for close focusing or telephoto use. The 65 and 43 lenses are superb,maybe the best medium format lenses available. I also feel the camera is well built and never had any issues with reliability. If you can live with the limitations the M7 is a great camera.

 

[mweintraub]

Hi

My take on it is the following.

If the RZ67 is too heavy, you should try it with a waist level viewfinder, which is much much lighter than the prism finder, and with a 127mm lens, which is IMO the lightest and most compact. Or with a RB-series 127/3.8C which is even more compact IMO.
............
My recommendation will be, take a look at the Pentax 67II which seems to be an improved machine. Also, consider if you really need SLR (reflex) viewing. And try creating your lighter-weight version of the RZ.

Lots of good info, but I have a few parts I feel different about.

The 110mm 2.8 is a little smaller than the 127. I just got the 127 in the mail with my new Pro II. It's a nice little lens, but not sure I'll keep it. =/

The Pentax 67II, from what I've read, can't be fixed if it's a logic board. Parts are just a not available.

 

[craigclu]

I've accumulated multiple medium format systems (blush) and simply kept everything instead of selling off lesser-used things as originally planned. For years, I used mainly a P67 with many lenses along with a 645 body and adapter to use lenses from both systems. This was an appealing feature for my photo duties then. I missed having changeable film backs and have built a GS-1 system over time. Optics of both systems are very good.

I also use a Bronica RF645 system and Mamiya 7 system. The Bronica's vertical format serves it well for candid duties, its beautiful handling and tactile perfection (think German-like) make it a gratifying piece of gear to own. Great optics. The Mamiya is less satisfying to hold and use as it has a plasticky, hollow feel to it. This shouldn't be a reason to avoid and I only mention this as it hadn't been referenced by others in the thread. Again, great optics.

Because of specific demands, I'm forced to use D_ _ _ _ _ more in the last 2-3 years and the SLR's have seen almost no use as the RF's serve me better for what I do in film these days. The Mamiya is only carried when I expect to make very large prints (for me, 11X14 and larger). The little Bronica is a more constant companion and creates very crisp, nice 11X14's. I admit that I have an accumulation problem (likely need a 12 step program) but I would think that some careful shopping could have you owning both styles of systems without too much financial stress...? The Mamiya really excels at wider angles (my 50mm is simply stunning) and portability and your current system is great at tripod duties and uses more suited to SLR's.

 

[shutterlight]

I have both the Mamiya 7II and the Pentax 67II. I prefer the Pentax since it has a much greater lens selection. Lenses are generally sharp across the board and much more affordable than the Mamiya options. If you're planning on doing portrait work, forget about the Mamiya imo, the Pentax has some amazing glass for portraits.

Safe to say I missed that memo five years ago. Virtually all I do is portraiture, and 95% of it has been with the 7.

 

[NortheastPhotographic]

These cameras have a lot of overlap but largely one does things that the other simply can't do, and vice-versa. It boils down to an RF vs SLR argument. I could have the same basic conversation about the F6 vs a Leica M7. Personally I chose a used Pentax 6x7, then had it fully overhauled by Eric Hendrickson. It works like a dream now, and feels very rugged. I added a wood right-hand (not the common Pentax) grip for added hand holdability. I've shot it down to 1/60th without seeing significant camera shake. For me the Pentax has replaced my 4x5 kit even for landscapes. The Mamiya lenses are better, but that doesn't mean the Pentax isn't making sharp pictures. Personally i'd put the 55/4 up against the Mamiya 50 at F8-11, no problem. Then I also have a 150/2.8 and the 105/2.4. The Mamiya simply cannot replicate these lenses. OTOH, my Pentax rarely travels with me. I take other cameras for that. I end up traveling with 35mm or my Rolleiflex. It just depends on you IMO.

 

[chassis]

The objection to the RZ is lack of hand holdability for documentary style photography, if I understand the OP correctly.

One data point: I recently did a client event with an RB67 and prism, handheld in a more or less documentary way. It can be done. What percentage of your work will be documentary and hand held? Instead of buying a new system with attendant accessories and lenses, why not buy a couple of lenses to improve your ability to do documentary handheld style with the RZ? With the RB, the 90 and 75 lenses give one a lot of flexibility to document an indoor/outdoor event, shooting handheld. 400 or 800 speed color negative film with this setup is versatile. p.s. I prefer not to use an accessory grip with the RB because the two available grips aren't very ergonomic in my view. I have the multi-angle grip and don't use it.

To me, the M7 and P67 do not offer significant improvements in handholdability. If you truly believe you need another camera system, a Hasselblad or 645 camera would give noticeably better handholdability. Or go with a Leica or Nikon in 35mm with the best glass you can afford. But again, another camera system brings with it a new set of accessories and lenses.

Unless your work will be heavily oriented toward something that needs handholdability, build out your RZ system so you can make the images you need to make.

 

[film_man]

I've owned a RB67 and a Pentax 6x7 (first gen model). They're both great systems. Going from the RB to the Pentax it certainly is a much more hand-holdable system. The ergonomics are basically non-existent with the 6x7 but you can shoot it like you shoot a Canon 1V or something (bit bigger and heavier but not much). Also, while the mirror shake feels strong I found that the usual 1/focal-length rule applies. That is nowhere near as good as on a RB/RZ67 which you can handhold down to 1/15 or less but still, not worse than a Hassy or most things.

My main issue with the 6x7 was that it had a spacing issue and was not serviceable. Plus the Pentax look is different to the Mamiya one and I just like the Mamiya look better. I've shot the Pentax with the 105, it is an amazing lens with a distinct look but up-close with the RB and the 90 or 127 is what I like.

As for the Mamiya 7. Never had one but I had a 6 with all 3 lenses. If that thing could focus closer than 1m I would just have that camera and nothing else. But it doesn't. So I don't. Amazingly light, amazingly sharp, amazingly compact for the format. The only concern was that the build didn't inspire that much confidence but that's probably more a feel thing than fact.

As for your case...for street, I'd either get the 7 or just use the RZ with the waist finder. But you can't go wrong with any "modern" MF cameras.

 

[trendland]

I've owned the Pentax 67 and now the Pentax 67ii. I have never shot the Mamiya but have handled it at a store.

One thing I like about the Pentax over the Mamiya is the faster shutter speed and as well as faster lenses. And since I tend to work slower with the medium format, I also preferred seeing through the lens to get exactly what I'm after.

If comparing the Mamiya to the first gen Pentax, I would recommend the Mamiya as well because the Pentax without it's proper right hand grip is just not a nice thing to hold. It's quite slippery. The wooden handle helps but it's on the opposite side.

Now that I have the second gen, I am taking it to outings more often because, with the handle, it behaves much like any DSLR. It is not considerably lighter, but you do feel it if you're coming from the first gen Pentax (that thing is heavy). The 67ii also has a brighter viewfinder, so much so that I wondered how I ever got on with the original.

I get the Mamiya 7ii is quieter and would be great for street and all, but at just 10 shots a roll, I'll stick to my Leica for street work.

 

[trendland]

I've owned the Pentax 67 and now the Pentax 67ii. I have never shot the Mamiya but have handled it at a store.

One thing I like about the Pentax over the Mamiya is the faster shutter speed and as well as faster lenses. And since I tend to work slower with the medium format, I also preferred seeing through the lens to get exactly what I'm after.

If comparing the Mamiya to the first gen Pentax, I would recommend the Mamiya as well because the Pentax without it's proper right hand grip is just not a nice thing to hold. It's quite slippery. The wooden handle helps but it's on the opposite side.

Now that I have the second gen, I am taking it to outings more often because, with the handle, it behaves much like any DSLR. It is not considerably lighter, but you do feel it if you're coming from the first gen Pentax (that thing is heavy). The 67ii also has a brighter viewfinder, so much so that I wondered how I ever got on with the original.

I get the Mamiya 7ii is quieter and would be great for street and all, but at just 10 shots a roll, I'll stick to my Leica for street work.

Hey Woozzle nice to hear about that you just own both types of the Pentax 67.
I have a question to Film transport with this type - just look on my thread here.
Perhaps you have a little answer to t his very spezial concern for me.
(I am sure you might know the answer of cause)

with regards

 

[Mark Fisher]

People tend to recommend what they own and I am no exception! I use a Hasselblad and a Fuji rangefinder. For what you are talking about, I'd look to find a 6x7 version of the Fuji rangefinders (most are 6x9 or 6x4.5). The Hasselblad is great handheld, but it is 6x6. Another to consider is the Bronica 6x7. They are essentially a bigger version of their SQ series. If you can stand the looks and find one in decent shape (I couldn't), a Koni-Omega may also be worth considering. Or just screw the hole thing and make a pinhole!

 

[DREW WILEY]

Not a direct answer, but I've supplemented my P67 system with a Fuji 6x9 rangefinder. The Pentax SLR has the full range of lenses, while the Fuji RF has excellent handheld spontaneity. You can own both for less $$ than a clean M7.

 

[Early Riser]

When it comes to image quality the Mamiya 7 will trounce the Pentax. But that doesn't mean it's the right camera for you. The Mamiya is a great travel and landscape camera but it uses a rangefinder so framing is not as precise and there's a huge lens gap between the 80mm and the 150mm. If you like to shoot with wide angles it's going to be the best image quality you can get, anywhere, period. For portrait work the lower precision of focusing and framing, and the serious resolution of the 150mm lens can be an issue.

The Pentax might be better if you are a studio shooter or use flash, that mirror slap is a serious issue when it comes to slower shutter speeds. But being an SLR you see exactly what you are getting and it does have a wider range of lenses.

 

[DREW WILEY]

I don't know what you mean by "trounce". There are less constraints designing wide angle lenses for a RF because they don't need to factor the mirror spacing. But later generation P67 lenses are plenty sharp. Besides, if you want to really stomp, just use larger film. Even 6x9 can upstage anything 6x7. What made me have second thoughts about an M7, however, is that there is that huge gap in focal lengths between 80 and 150.

 

[Early Riser]

I don't know what you mean by "trounce". There are less constraints designing wide angle lenses for a RF because they don't need to factor the mirror spacing. But later generation P67 lenses are plenty sharp. Besides, if you want to really stomp, just use larger film. Even 6x9 can upstage anything 6x7. What made me have second thoughts about an M7, however, is that there is that huge gap in focal lengths between 80 and 150.

You're right that the lack of a mirror box gives the Mamiya 7II wide angle lenses a serious advantage over the Pentax, but ignoring why the Mamiya 7II lenses are better the simple fact is that they are much better. I own 62 of the best modern lenses out there, the best from Zeiss, Schneider, Mamiya, Fuji, Rodenstock. I examine my film for detail and resolution through a microscope. The most consistently sharp, brutally sharpest MF lenses I own are for the Mamiya 7II. Sharper than the legendary Zeiss 100mm Planar and 180mm Sonnar, sharper than the Schneider 90mm APO Makro for the Rolleiflex 6008i cameras. "Plenty" sharp does not work for me.

I agree that the lens gap between the 80mm and 150mm lenses on the Mamiya is a serious flaw, my solution was to add a Hasselblad with the 100mm Planar, and to seek another lens solution in the 135mm range.

 

[DREW WILEY]

OK. I kept my P67 system primarily to use the 300EDIF. It's so crisp that it's in demand for wide-field astrophotoraphy. But I've got an even better 300. It's the 300 Nikkor M that I use for 6x9 roll-film backs on a 4x5 (or full 4x5 film). The P67 version weighs about twenty times as much and requires a huge tripod, but makes up for it in fun factor. I'd love to own an M7 too, but no budget for it.

 

[DREW WILEY]

OK. I kept my P67 system primarily to use the 300EDIF. It's so crisp that it's in demand for wide-field astrophotoraphy. But I've got an even better 300. It's the 300 Nikkor M that I use for 6x9 roll-film backs on a 4x5 (or full 4x5 film). The P67 version weighs about twenty times as much and requires a huge tripod, but makes up for it in fun factor. I'd love to own an M7 too, but no budget for it.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Guess ya gotta understand where I'm coming from. Over the past wk, I've been printing from P67, Fuji 6X9 RF, 4x5, & 8x10 film. The evolution in sheer film area more than "trounce" any lens comparisons. So why did I go out w the P67 today. Just because I felt like it. Used the 75/4.5.

 

[DREW WILEY]

One more note before I snooze. I like the out-of-focus rendering of the P67 75 quite a bit more than the M7 80. One more reason I kept the system. Yet another is factor is if something gets stolen it won't break the bank. I often backpack with a view camera, but leave a MF behind in the truck for quickie road shots.

 

[Soeren]

Having both Pentax 6x7 and Mamiya RZ67PROII Id say go for the Mamiya 7. The RZ does the same things as the Pentax and the Mamiya 7 does the rest.

 

[rustyair]

Had both, kept Pentax 67II. I love my 105mm lens so much that I bought replacement instantly when first 105mm was broken.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Kinda an apples versus oranges question, really. It would be nice to have both. Most of my life I've gravitated to long focal length lenses, and that is a weak point for rangefinders, as are closeups. But I must admit I love my Fuji 6x9 RF for casual shooting.