Mamiya 645 - First frame is always half burnt

Donald Qualls said:

I wouldn't call the 15 vs. 16 frames a "dilemma" -- 16 645 frames is the exact same length as 12 6x6 frames (I process enough of both to be sure of this). Why Mamiya and a couple others chose to only give 15 frames I couldn't say.

In any case, you're correct in understanding that some processing machines require exposing a short bit of the film tail -- but it's the tail that gets fogged, not the head, because it's that end that gets unrolled when the film is processed; the taped, head end is the last to come out. If the processing machine is fogging into the first frame, it's happening at the end of the roll, as the machine sees it, possibly indicating that the feed cassette is being opened too soon (i.e. someone is in a hurry, trying to maximize their roll count).

Click to expand...

When I worked in a lab, we would always unroll 120 completely so we could remove the tape. This was so it didn't come off in the processor. The head end was what usually got taped to the leader.

You lab is using a daylight cassette loaded, which needs to feed the start of the film into the machine before the light cover is closed, which causes the start of the film to be exposed. This is not a problem with 35mm film as the leader is already exposed, but there is no leader on 120 or 220, the entire film should be clear of any leader exposed area. The lab needs to feed the cassette onto the machine in total darkness for 120 film - which may be impossible depend on how it's installed.

One my local labs have this problem, and there are so few labs now! They usually process 35mm from disposable cameras, so 120 was not well known. And due to the setup, they cannot initiate the feed in total darkness (or won't), so I do what has been suggested above - start the roll at least a 1/2 frame further in so the exposed "leader" does not overlap the 1st frame. That s a 1/2 turn further past the start mark. Since your Mamiya only exposes 15 frames, you should have lots of space on the end. Certain film brands are longer (ie: Kodak has lots of extra film, Agfa is really tight). Unfortunately you cannot do this on every camera, the ones that use the rear red windows line up the first frame right at the start of the film - with those you have to find another lab.

Peltigera said:

In post #9, the OP states that it is frame 15 that has the problem.

Click to expand...

Look back at the thread title, and reread #9. The burnt half frame is at the head; the problem on frame 15 is the edge fogging and a little big of a light strike in the middle of the frame (or the tail after the frame).

And yes, I can see where it would make sense to unroll the entire film for handling in order to remove the tape (I do that in my own darkroom, though I generally tear the tape, as I've never had a problem with it coming off in the tank -- but there are far fewer consequences for me, with no more than four rolls involved, than in a minilab that might have another hundred rolls to go during the shift). If that's the case, though, we're back to a combination of a lab problem (fogging too much film when loading the cassette) and a camera or loading problem (not enough film pulled through before Frame 1).

The real solution might be to start processing your own (yes, color -- C-41 isn't hard, temp control is the only tricky bit). I never have a fogged leader or tail on my 120, so if I have half a frame at the start or tail, I know what happened and how to fix it. And if I have thirteen on a roll (easy to do, though it requires intent, with my Reflex II) I know who to blame, too (I usually like the idea when I'm shooting, but not so much when I'm storing the film in negative pages).

My m645 leaves a fair amount of clear space before the first image and after the 15th image. If the lab is having this much trouble with a 15 exposure Mamiya, I would suspect it is having even more problems with cameras that shoot a full 16 on a roll.

Wallendo said:

My m645 leaves a fair amount of clear space before the first image and after the 15th image. If the lab is having this much trouble with a 15 exposure Mamiya, I would suspect it is having even more problems with cameras that shoot a full 16 on a roll.

Click to expand...

In reference to the frame numbering, the OP's first frame is about 3/4 inch to one inch earlier on the film (closer to the beginning) than frames from my Mamiya 645 Pro.
Based on the first picture of a negative posted by the OP, it looks to me like the lab returned to the OP either the entire beginning of the roll, or at least all except about a half inch at the beginning - where the leader card might have been attached.
If the first frame had been positioned where my camera positions it, the short bit of initial fog wouldn't have impacted that first frame.
The light strike at the end looks like it may be related to the OP's handling of the film, not the lab.
And the unexposed part of the film at the end is about what I end up with, plus the same 3/4 inch to one inch extra.

Here are two excerpts from a scan of a contact sheet which show a bit about how the frames and the edge numbering of Kodak film line up for me when I use my Mamiya 645 Pro.
I refer to the alternative edge numbering - 41 through 55 - because that coincides with the framing on 6x4.5 cameras.
Near the beginning of the film, showing frame number 41 through 43:



And the last three frames on the roll, showing frame number 53 through 55:



You will note that those frame numbers are adjacent to almost the exact centre of each frame.

The white holes are where the sheet was punched for the binder the contact proof is stored in (incorrectly on the first try).

In the OP's case, his/her film is advanced about 1/2 frame width less before the first frame is exposed.

Definitely a lab issue -- I've seen that before. The fogging is I think what happens when they expose the tip of the film to the light before putting it in the roller transport processor. Good labs don't seem to do this step, I'm not sure why some lousy ones do this.

Your camera may be running it a little tight too. Try advancing an extra 1/3 turn of the roll beyond the arrow when you load it. I usually find there's more margin after the film than before.

If the lab is using a leader card processor, then the usual proceedure is to unspool the 120 film from the backing paper in a darkbox/bag and then load it into a dark cassette with the taped end out (exposed). The tape is cut off and the film pulled out of the dark cassette, about 20mm max, to be spliced onto the leader card. Then all is put into the processor for developing and the feed section closed and locked. Maybe this lab is extracting more of the film for splicing than they should.

There should be enough spare film at the start to allow this. It is not advisable to put the end of the 120 first, spliced to the leader card, as the tape end can cause problems in the tanks.

If the felt light trap on the dark cassette is worn or faulty this can lead to light leaks.