Mamiya 6 - what to look out for?

[GFDarlington]

Hello all

I am toying with buying a MF camera and instinctively feel attracted to the 6x6 format. I seem to be drawn to the various non-standard formats and have never been truly at home with the slightly off square formats such as 6x7 or even 35mm. I love the 3:1 of my Xpan and have always liked the look of the square format and the disicipline that I suspect working in this format requires.

I've recently had my hands on a Bronica SQA and didn't like either its size or weight and I suspect that a Hasssy 6x6 system might be too similar and anyway be well beyond my pocket. However, recently I learnt about the Mamiya 6 and how portable it is and how good the lenses seem to be.

What I would like to know is what sort of things I should be looking out for in a used camera and lenses, given that most of the limited amount of
stock that becomes available seems to be well over a decade old now. How robust where these cameras, and especially the twisting mechanism for the lens mount? I am also aware that there are sometimes problems with the rangefinder operation and the metering location but are these easy to remedy these days? I'd welcome any help from those who own or have owned such a system about what I should be looking out for.

Thanks, Graham

 

[Sputnik]

Beiing a happy Mamiya 6 owner myself, I can't say I've had any problems myself. However, it seems that the winding mechanism is the weak point of the camera. I haven't heard anything about the lensmount though.

 

[rternbach]

Winding mechanism, winding mechanism, winding mechanism.

 

[keithwms]

I'll assume we are talking about the newer 6, not the early 6 folder nor the 6MF.

Yes, I would definitely check the winding mechanism with a spare roll of film. Make sure it winds smoothly from start to finish. You should also try out the collapsing mechanism (it should click in sharply to a firm stop when it is extended and feel sturdy- no wobble). And check these three (actually 4) buttons/knobs:

(1) the lens release button
(2) the collapse release button
(3) the recessed pac-man knob and sliding button on the bottom of the camera, which operate the nifty protective curtain that you deploys when you change lenses mid-roll. (this is the only slightly confusing bit on the camera- you won't be able to swap lenses unless this is closed position, so don't force the lens release button, check the pac-man knob first!)

Note that you can fire the shutter when the back is open, so that is a good thing to do. Just try the speeds and inspect the lens(es) for any damage with the shutter open. If you want to get fancy you can put a piece of ground glass at the film plane while firing the camera open and look for any misalignment (there almost certainly won't be any issues there). You can also inspect the bellows, from the inside, when you extend the lens mount and open the back. Because the bellows are protected from the outside, you are unlikely to find any issues there.

I have an EX and a BGN condition 6, and after some of my experimentation (okay, I loaded 35mm film and cranked too hard :rolleyes: ), the new one developed some minor inconsistency in winding (no big deal, no overlapping frames) and the BGN has the quirk that you cannot power it off! But nevertheless it still works peeerfectly and doesn't drain any significant power when not in use.

Overall, the 6es are extremely robust and hard to damage, with exception of the winder which is the weakest point on the camera and should be protected carefully for travel.

Lenses- well, because of the design, you should check the rear elements for damage. Also check that the hoods go on and off and aren't cross threaded. The hoods and their mounts are the weakest point on the lenses. But overall the lenses are exceptionally well made and superb. Zero issues with any of mine.

Overall, the 6es are a very good buy, which the resale prices demonstrate very clearly. They are definitely my camera of choice, esp. for travel and such.

 

[GFDarlington]

Thanks for the comments, especially for Keith taking the time and trouble to post such a detailed overview of the camera and what specifically to look for. I feel a lot better armed now and cab peruse the various auction sites with a bit more confidence and with some good questions under my belt. Much appreciated. I shall let you now if or when I get around to purchasing one.

Graham

 

[grahamp]

Dirty electrical contacts in the lens mount can cause some odd shutter behavior. Dying batteries can also cause the shutter to hang after release. Quirks rather than problems.

 

[david b]

At this point in time, and considering their costs, I would look into some other options.

Check out a Mamiya 7 (not the 7II). The bodies are now selling for around $500-$600, same as the Mamiya 6.
There are plenty of parts and Mamiya still services the camera.

As mentioned, the biggest problem is the winding mechanism which can break and stop working at any point. Would not be much fun if you were away on a road trip or something like that and then the camera dies.

I've not heard anything bad about the Bronica RF645. About the same size with a few extra features and the same price.

For me, I would not take a chance.

 

[vdonovan]

If I had it to do over, I would go with the 7. While the 6 is a great camera, it is not immortal. Sooner or later it will need repair. My 6 just came out of the shop (Precision Camera Works) and I was told that parts are getting hard to find.

 

[AutumnJazz]

Why does Mamiya make such amazing lenses and poorly-built cameras?

 

[keithwms]

Why does Mamiya make such amazing lenses and poorly-built cameras?

Eh? The Mamiyas are exceedingly robust. I have a good half dozen mamiyas of all varieties and have never had anything approaching a fatal flaw with any of them. not a one has needed CLA even. And they were all bought well used.

People jammer about things that happen very rarely because they aren't busy enough taking photographs. I just mentioned a couple of things to look out for on the used market.

Of course no camera is immortal straight out of the box... the only way to make it immortal is to take an immortal photograph with it. So get busy

 

[AutumnJazz]

I thought the Mamiya 6 & 7 had tons of quality problems. (Blame it on Ken Rockwell, who says the 6 & 7 have the best glass, and the worst camera bodies.)

 

[RH Designs]

I've owned a 6MF and three lenses since c1995 and have had no issues with any of it. Great kit, and so compact.

 

[delphine]

I have a Mamiya 6.... I had no problem to report, though I have been extra careful when winding the film, and also, because my bellows had a slight crank inside (not affecting the functioning), I took the habit not fold down the body.

I think that the same as with every camera, they are as robust as long as you take care of them.

Unfortunately, I suspect one of the twins to have dropped the camera as I found it with a ding on the filter part of the lens, and the parallax was completely out.
Since I have dropped the camera for repair, the repairer found that the mechanism to fold the lens down does not longer work, and the frame spacing was broken too which he is replacing ... so I end up with a big repair bill and a broken heart in the meantime.

Apart from my misadventure .. it is a great camera to have ... I love the 50mm.

 

[brian steinberger]

I too am a happy owner of a Mamiya 6. Never had any problems to report either. I do take caution when winding the film, and the lenses are amazing. I've been on the lookout for another body in decent shape to have just in case. I also own a Bronica RF645 that I absolutely adore as well. Both are great cameras, but there is something special about the 6x6 format.

 

[GM Bennett]

Ditto on no problems, and my Mamiya 6 body has seen a fair amount of use off and on over the past 10 years. I picked up a second body (a MF) a while back after reading reports about there being limited or no parts to repair the winder if it went, but so far no problems with either.

 

[GFDarlington]

Thanks for all these observations. I am partly reassured by the lots of people who have had no problems with their kit - and even Delphine's trauma seems to have been fixed by someone, so there must be spare parts out there, which is a positive, even if the failure of the winder mechanism seems to signal almost certain death to the camera.

My main anxiety revolves around the high cost of the camera and its lenses due to its comparative rarity when weighed up against the relative age of that equipment and the probable and unknown degree of wear in most of the cameras that are likely to come on to the used market. This is a big risk with Ebay and the like when you can't inspect the kit too closely and auctions are ending at about £600 for the camera and a 75mm lens, while the second hand retailers such as Ffordes and Aperture in the UK are looking at around £1000 for the same kit in non-mint condition. Looking at back editions of B&W Photography (UK) I see that used prices have gone up by about 20-25% in the last three years. This is just too much for me and, despite the mostly favourable the comments posted above I am worried about spending £600+ on a camera that I can't get to see before I bid. I might have to look at bigger and bulkier alternatives as I can't see many other 6x6 options. However, thanks again for all the useful words.

Graham

 

[brian steinberger]

Graham, I certainly understand your concern and don't blame you for being cautious. Before I got my Mamiya 6, I purchased a Bronica SQ-A system that I enjoyed fairly well, but once I was able afford an M6 (I guess I got lucky and got a perfectly working one from ebay) I quickly quit using the SQ and eventually sold it. There certainly are cheaper and "bulkier" SLR alternatives, but there is nothing quite like a 6x6 rangefinder. Of course, this all depends on your photographic style. Good luck with your search!

 

[delphine]

Graham, could there be somebody near you with a Mamiya 6 to borrow so that you can get a feel of the camera?

 

[GFDarlington]

Delphine - Yes, indeed, there could be and in fact I am going to have a look at one this very evening only a few miles from where I live thanks to a kind offer from RH. Very prescient of you (and not a little disturbing)! I'll let you know how I get on.

Graham