Mamiya 16 Camera

[Don Heisz]

but which side is making the noise?

Probably something in your pocket.

 

[mshchem]

but which side is making the noise?

Ha the one you open in daylight to check.

 

[Donald Qualls]

a flag that pops up when the photograph will not be worth taking.

But then it's really the AI doing the photography and you're just the transport mechanism...

 

[Don Heisz]

But then it's really the AI doing the photography and you're just the transport mechanism...

But think how much film would be saved - at least 99.9%.

 

[Donald Qualls]

But think how much film would be saved - at least 99.9%.

Probably all of it -- the AI would be using digital to evaluate the scene anyway, why bother with film at all?

 

[Donald Qualls]

And it's a bottom loader, like a Leica!

Actually... my Autographic Vest Pocket Kodak loads from the bottom (as did the original non-autographic model), a couple decades before Barnack and Leitz started standardizing the double movie frame for still cameras. That said, the Minolta and Rollei 16 (as well as all the rebranded copies of the Rollei) load from the bottom as well, as does the Minox. For a camera so small there's no room on top after you put exposure and focus controls on there, it's a pretty easy choice...

And I just got a text saying I have a package, pretty well has to be the Mamiya 16, I haven't had anything else shipped to my rented box in a while. And I just ordered the 3D printed cartridges, they should be here before the end of March.

 

[Kino]

I just ordered the 3D printed cartridges, they should be here before the end of March.

Can you share your source for ordering the cartridges?

 

[Donald Qualls]

Can you share your source for ordering the cartridges?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/185696832250 -- or if you have a 3D printer and a source of opaque filament, Google can find you the files to print your own. I plan to do this, but I'll have the two I ordered before I'll have time to get my Ender 3 back in operation.

 

[Kino]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/185696832250 -- or if you have a 3D printer and a source of opaque filament, Google can find you the files to print your own. I plan to do this, but I'll have the two I ordered before I'll have time to get my Ender 3 back in operation.

Thanks, Donald. I have been eyeing a 3D printer for a while...

 

[Flighter]

And I just got a text saying I have a package, pretty well has to be the Mamiya 16, I haven't had anything else shipped to my rented box in a while. And I just ordered the 3D printed cartridges, they should be here before the end of March.

My 3D printed cartridge arrived today.

I've got some velvet so may try and put some on as a light seal for the film entry/exit.

The covers for each spool compartment in the cassette have a raised ridge on the inside (blue arrow) which locates in a groove in the cassette body (green arrow) which keeps the caps in position without having to use tape - really neat!

 

[Donald Qualls]

Nice! My camera arrived today, and everything looks good, the meter needle responds to light (though I can't readily test a selenium meter for accuracy indoors at night), aperture opens and closes, focus moves the front element (close up reflection counting confirms its a triplet, should be comparable to the lenses in my Kiev 30 and 303) -- except for the shutter speeds. First time I ran through them, 200, 100, and 50 sounded fairly close, ran down to B and that worked fine, came back up to 2 and it stuck open, and so did 5 -- and after each of those closed when I worked the film advance, now all of the speeds other than B sound the same (about like 50 should). Not completely unexpected; camera was sold as "untested, everything moves" and it does. Looks like no big deal to access the shutter, hopefully it just has a follower off the cam or needs the gummed up lubricant moved around. If I can't make it work, there are plenty of these on eBay in various conditions (there was even one with the last version, non-reusable molded cartridge in the camera).

I have next week off work (scheduled vacation time), so hopefully I'll find time to unscrew some screws and see what I can find. I have two cartridges on the way from England, so hopefully by the time they arrive I'll have a working camera.

Say, if one of the mods wants to move all this discussion on Mamiya 16 out of the "last photography related purchase" thread to its own thread (still under Miscellaneous Equipment, probably, since there's no subminiature subforum), I'd welcome it. Had no idea this would go this way...

 

[MattKing]

Posts moved from the "What was your last photography postage?" thread, at the suggestion of Donald Qualls.

 

[Donald Qualls]

Thanks, Matt.

I've just been digging around, there doesn't seem to be any information around on what's inside this camera. Does anyone have a link to some photos with the covers off or information what to look for in the shutter?

 

[ic-racer]

Mamiya-Sekor lens, 25mm f2.8 View attachment 331779

So many great little cameras!

 

[Flighter]

Thanks, Matt.

I've just been digging around, there doesn't seem to be any information around on what's inside this camera. Does anyone have a link to some photos with the covers off or information what to look for in the shutter?

It's not the same camera, but this page on the Mamiya Super 16 (plus Google Translate for the text) was helpful when I had to get into the lens on mine to remove some fungus. Unfortunately I didn't take many pictures when I worked on mine as I got too involved with the work and forgot to take pictures.

 

[Bushcat]

There's quite a bit of sample variation in the printed 3D cartridges: living where the shipping exceeds the purchase price, I'm not sure I'd buy just one.

 

[Bronson Dugnutt]

The best version of a printable Mamiya 16 cart mimics Minolta and omits the spool on the feed side, which allows for attaching the take-up spool in daylight, non-opaque PLA not withstanding. The thinner the take-up spool the larger the number of potential exposures.

 

[Flighter]

For what it's worth here are the pictures I did take when getting access to the lens to remove the fungus that was on it. Comments are based on my memory of waht I did 2 years ago so no guarantee!

First up was to remove the shutter speed dial - an optical spanner (wrench) is handy. Lift off the dial noting that there is a wave spring washer under it (black arrow).

Next the exposure speed dial, noting that there is another wave spring washer under the retaining screw (black arrow).

I then removed the four screws at each corner that hold the top plate on (two shown by orange arrows, there is no need to remove the two screws circled in blue)…

…and the screws at either end of the front plate (one shown)…

…which can then be lifted off leaving the filter and filter holder resting on the camera.

Front plate has three parts, the plate itself, the sliding lens cover which also locks the shutter (yellow arrow) and the filter slot cover (red arrow) - this is the view from the rear.

 

[Flighter]

The photo cell will now be loose, the metal spring plate that serves to earth (ground) the photocell to the camera body is shown by the yellow arrow.

The photo cell can be removed by disconnecting the wire that completes the circuit at the screw connector.

With the top plate removed, the aperture control arm can be seen (purple arrow) which gives a mechanical connection between the rotating exposure meter dial (which has a gear wheel on the back which links with teeth on the aperture control arm)…

…and the aperture lever on the lens (red arrow) which engages with the prong (green arrow) on the back of the aperture control arm

The filmwind wheel can be lifted off the top deck, there is no need to remove the exposure counter wheel

The top deck is secured by a screw at either end (one shown) and can be lifted off, taking care to collect the shutter button which will now be free Edit: the brass coloured shutter plunger here is not free, the chrome shutter button that sits above becomes free at an earlier stage when the top plate is removed

The slotted prong (blue arrow) which cab be seen on the back of the focusing lever (on the reverse of the top deck)…

…engages with a focusing pin (blue arrow) on the front element holder

 

[Flighter]

Next up is to remove the plate covering the lens and shutter speed mechanism, one screw on the front of the camera…

…and one near the film plane in the film chamber

…and the plate removed allowing access to the lens and (red arrow) shutter speed mechanism

If the lens is to be removed the tensioning spring must be removed…

…and then the front element holder unscrewed from the focusing helicoid - going carefully to note the position at which the holder is free from the helicoid to ensure it is replaced in the right position - I assume this is the reason I took the picture below rathe4 than to record the fungus on the lens

The rear element can then be removed with the help of a lens spanner (wrench). The randomly bent strip of metal (white arrow) is part of the flash synch circuit.

My shutter speeds seemed fine, as far as I could tell by ear, so I did not investigate the shutter speed mechanism further.

 

[Flighter]

And, yes, I did manage to get it all back together. Here's a picture, of no great artistic merit, that I took two weeks ago when I ran the first test roll through the camera. Origin of scratches still to be determined, the film came from an old, part used roll of Ilford Pan F (marked develop before May 1968 and acquired amongst some other bits and pieces in an Ebay purchase) and was my first attempt at loading the Mamiya cartridge in a changing bag. So I may have scratched it, it may already have been scratched, the camera may have scratched it or there may have been grit in the velvet light trap of the cassette. Film metered at ASA10 and semi stan developed in Caffenol C-L for 70 minutes at 20°C (68°F).

and the film that was used

 

[Donald Qualls]

Thanks, Flighter. Given I don't need to remove the lens (mine is quite clean), I mainly need to get into the front plate. I'll keep your post open on my phone when I'm working on this, in hopes I can do this without disassembling all the linkages under the top cover.

I'm pretty sure there's a pallet mechanism somewhere in there that's gummed up or not being engaged, and that'll be the source of the problem. The front plate has some indentation, like someone squeezed the camera a little in a very soft fist, though both the lock/cover and the filter carrier slide as expected. Given those parts move, I doubt that has any connection with the shutter speed problem.

 

[Flighter]

The site mentioned in my earlier post, https://mglss.rakugan.com/Mamiya_Super_16/repair/
mentions a bit more about the shutter mechanism for the Mamiya Super 16 (Google translate needed) which may be similar to the Mamiya 16 Automatic, although the Super has a 1/2 second speed as well.

Agreed, I don't think any slight indentation on the front plate would affect the shutter mechanism, especially if the lock/cover and filter slide as expected.

Good luck!
James

 

[Donald Qualls]

My Automatic has 1/2, 1/5, 1/10, 1/25, 1/50, 1/100, 1/200. Maybe you mean the Super doesn't have 1/2?

I have a look at that site with a translator -- from the photos, it looks like the shutter has a lot in common with those in a Minolta 16 II or Kiev 30, aside from being between the lens instead of a guillotine type in front of the lens.

 

[Flighter]

My Automatic has 1/2, 1/5, 1/10, 1/25, 1/50, 1/100, 1/200. Maybe you mean the Super doesn't have 1/2?

I have a look at that site with a translator -- from the photos, it looks like the shutter has a lot in common with those in a Minolta 16 II or Kiev 30, aside from being between the lens instead of a guillotine type in front of the lens.

That's interesting, there must be two versions, mine has B, 1/5, 1/10, 1/25, 1/50, 1/100 and 1/200. Just had a look at Mike Butkus' camera manuals site and the Automatic manual he has is different from my manual, his manual shows a shuuter speed dial with the 1/2 second speed wheras my manual doesn't.