Mamiya 16 Camera

Donald Qualls · Mar 5, 2023

Haven't gotten a response from the seller yet, but I made an offer (below BIN) for a Mamiya 16 Automatic "untested" after checking that I can buy new made 3D printed film cartridges (I'm willing to test the cartridges and add light tightness if/as needed).

Why would I buy one of these when I have Minolta 16, 16 II, MG, MGs, QT, Kiev 30, and Kiev 303? It's barely bigger than a Minolta 16, but without the telescoping operation (knob-edge advance), with a wider shutter speed range, tripod and cable release socket, PC connector and accessory shoe, f/2.8 focusing lens and built-in 4x ND filter -- and can operate fully manual if the meter cell is dead. Cassettes are less available, but I've watch-listed a UK source, and three or four will do all I need. And, like the Minolta format cameras, it doesn't care about film perfs, so I can use cine, unperfed, or film slit from 35 mm or 120 (just as with my Minolta cameras).

The only disadvantage is the 10x14 mm frame (same as the early Minolta cameras), but I've gotten many good prints from the MG I bought first in 1981; with care and a decent lens, plus the ability to nail focus instead of depending on hyperfocal or a close-up diopter, I expect to get similar results. And 16 mm cine film in short rolls is cheap compared to bigger negatives...

mshchem · Mar 6, 2023

Donald Qualls said:
Haven't gotten a response from the seller yet, but I made an offer (below BIN) for a Mamiya 16 Automatic "untested" after checking that I can buy new made 3D printed film cartridges (I'm willing to test the cartridges and add light tightness if/as needed).

Why would I buy one of these when I have Minolta 16, 16 II, MG, MGs, QT, Kiev 30, and Kiev 303? It's barely bigger than a Minolta 16, but without the telescoping operation (knob-edge advance), with a wider shutter speed range, tripod and cable release socket, PC connector and accessory shoe, f/2.8 focusing lens and built-in 4x ND filter -- and can operate fully manual if the meter cell is dead. Cassettes are less available, but I've watch-listed a UK source, and three or four will do all I need. And, like the Minolta format cameras, it doesn't care about film perfs, so I can use cine, unperfed, or film slit from 35 mm or 120 (just as with my Minolta cameras).

The only disadvantage is the 10x14 mm frame (same as the early Minolta cameras), but I've gotten many good prints from the MG I bought first in 1981; with care and a decent lens, plus the ability to nail focus instead of depending on hyperfocal or a close-up diopter, I expect to get similar results. And 16 mm cine film in short rolls is cheap compared to bigger negatives...

That sounds pretty cool. Modern film, should be able to get nice 4x6 prints.

Donald Qualls · Mar 7, 2023

mshchem said:
Modern film, should be able to get nice 4x6 prints.

I've made 8x10 from this size negative using microfilm (and likely could with Acros II, TMX, or Delta 100) -- and have several rolls of Copex Rapid in 120 that I could slit (six reloads per 120 roll makes it reasonably economical). The bigger issue is scanning, but since I found the path to 6400 ppi on my V850, I can get a reasonable file size from even these tiny negatives.

Flighter · Mar 7, 2023

Donald Qualls said:
Haven't gotten a response from the seller yet, but I made an offer (below BIN) for a Mamiya 16 Automatic "untested" after checking that I can buy new made 3D printed film cartridges (I'm willing to test the cartridges and add light tightness if/as needed)...

Best of luck with the offer.

I have finally, last couple of weeks, got around to trying out my Dad's Mamiya 16 Automatic. The camera was never used within my memory so this was the first film through it in over 57 years, if not longer.

I had purchased some bits and pieces off Ebay a year or so ago and the seller included a part used roll of Ilford Pan F cine film. Fortunately the Mamiya still had an empty cassette so I plucked up my courage and using some of the Pan F I managed to load the cassette in a changing bag. The tape securing the lid of the film canister was pretty sticky so I was expecting to mark the film with sticky fingerprints as I loaded it but just looked on the whole exercise as a proof in concept for loading and would clean up the tin later.

Given the age of the film (the canister said 'Develop before May 1968' I was surprised by how good the images were. In deference to its age I shot the film at ASA 10 (lowest setting on the Mamiya) and semi-stand developed in Caffenol C-L for 70 minutes. No fingerprints on the film but some scratches, don't know if they came from my first attempts at loading film into the cartridge, grit on the velvet light seals on the cartridge or the film was ready scratched.

Looking in the web, it seems the Mamiya 16 Automatic was introduced in August 1959 so at most it was only used for 5 or 6 years before being retired, probably due to the difficulty in getting film, my Dad was living in Nyasaland (now Malawi) at that time.

I've reloaded the cartridge and also have a 3D one on order from Ebay. I'm enjoying my venture into the sub-miniature world.

Donald Qualls · Mar 7, 2023

Don't lose or break that cartridge -- those are going for as much as the cameras these days.

My offer was accepted, so I'll have the camera around the end of this week. I might have to prioritize getting my Ender 3 running again for my vacation time next week, so I can print a cartridge rather than waiting for shipping from UK...

mshchem · Mar 7, 2023

Donald Qualls said:
I've made 8x10 from this size negative using microfilm (and likely could with Acros II, TMX, or Delta 100) -- and have several rolls of Copex Rapid in 120 that I could slit (six reloads per 120 roll makes it reasonably economical). The bigger issue is scanning, but since I found the path to 6400 ppi on my V850, I can get a reasonable file size from even these tiny negatives.

Sounds like a heck of a lot of fun. I need to look for a bargain on a negative carrier for these formats. It's only a matter of time for me to get into these things. When you think about the miracle of modern film, these cameras should be able to come close to what 35mm did with 1960's era film.
TMX is amazing.
What is the lens FL and speed?

mshchem · Mar 7, 2023

Donald Qualls said:
Don't lose or break that cartridge -- those are going for as much as the cameras these days.

My offer was accepted, so I'll have the camera around the end of this week. I might have to prioritize getting my Ender 3 running again for my vacation time next week, so I can print a cartridge rather than waiting for shipping from UK...

100' roll Ektachrome at B&H is 79 bucks 10 people could have 10 rolls.

Flighter · Mar 7, 2023

mshchem said:
What is the lens FL and speed?

Mamiya-Sekor lens, 25mm f2.8

Donald Qualls · Mar 7, 2023

mshchem said:
What is the lens FL and speed?

It's 25 mm f/2.8 Mamiya Sekor. Counting reflections in a YouTube video makes it seem to be a triplet, but it's hard to be sure it isn't a Tessar type (Google doesn't seem to know). I'll be able to tell better when I have it in hand.

That lens means I can hand hold in well lit interiors or under street light at EI 800 -- which XP2 gets to with no effort. Meter goes from 10 to 1600 (assuming the selenium cell is still working).

I was incorrect about filter; this camera has a yellow, but the filter is actually removable/replaceable (good luck finding compatible filters, though; cutting my own might be necessary).

Flighter · Mar 7, 2023

Donald Qualls said:
I was incorrect about filter; this camera has a yellow, but the filter is actually removable/replaceable (good luck finding compatible filters, though; cutting my own might be necessary).

The Mamiya 16 EE de luxe has a (non-removable) 4x ND filter which can be slid in front of the lens and at the same time slides a metal cover over part of the photocell window reducing the area exposed to light by 1/4.

Flighter · Mar 7, 2023

Donald Qualls said:
Meter goes from 10 to 1600 (assuming the selenium cell is still working).

If the cell appears dead check the earth - the Automatic just relies on a piece of spring steel resting against the metal body of the camera pressing against the back of the cell for an earth - there is no physical connection like a soldered wire, and can be the reason for a cell appearing not to work if there is oxidation on the spring steel. Mine can be a bit temperamental at times.

Sirius Glass · Mar 7, 2023

Flighter said:
If the cell appears dead check the earth - the Automatic just relies on a piece of spring steel resting against the metal body of the camera pressing against the back of the cell for an earth - there is no physical connection like a soldered wire, and can be the reason for a cell appearing not to work if there is oxidation on the spring steel. Mine can be a bit temperamental at times.

In the US, "earth" is called "ground".

mshchem · Mar 7, 2023

Get one of these projectors, cut your slide mounts.

Flighter said:
If the cell appears dead check the earth - the Automatic just relies on a piece of spring steel resting against the metal body of the camera pressing against the back of the cell for an earth - there is no physical connection like a soldered wire, and can be the reason for a cell appearing not to work if there is oxidation on the spring steel. Mine can be a bit temperamental at times.

These neat little guys can be a great project. I can't repair things his tiny, but for those with steady hands what a fun project that's affordable!

mshchem · Mar 7, 2023

Flighter said:
Mamiya-Sekor lens, 25mm f2.8View attachment 331779

So cool!

Donald Qualls · Mar 7, 2023

Flighter said:
If the cell appears dead check the earth

I'll try to keep that in mind, though I'm generally comfortable operating the camera as full manual (no meter) if the meter isn't reliable.

Sirius Glass said:
In the US, "earth" is called "ground".

Fortunately, I'm bilingual -- I speak and read both American and British-derived English, pretty much interchangeably.

Flighter · Mar 7, 2023

Sirius Glass said:
In the US, "earth" is called "ground".

Britain and America - two nations divided by a common language!

Sirius Glass · Mar 7, 2023

Flighter said:
Britain and America - two nations divided by a common language!

Aye, that be the rub.

mshchem · Mar 7, 2023

Flighter said:
Britain and America - two nations divided by a common language!

Absolutely, I recently observed a reprint of a book for US GIs in Britain during WWII. Very fun, hood is the roof, bonnet is the hood,
We were in London about 5 years back and it's amazing the differences. Ask for a rest room or an ATM .

When we were strolling I kept seeing "dry riser", on buildings, dawned on me it was what the US calls a "stand pipe" pretty obvious even to an American.

Flighter · Mar 7, 2023

mshchem said:
So cool!

And the top view, when I was a kid I always thought it was a cool camera with so much going on.

And it's a bottom loader, like a Leica!

MattKing · Mar 7, 2023

More cameras should definitely have a switchable indicator that offers "Empty" as an option!

Don_ih · Mar 7, 2023

mshchem said:
Absolutely, I recently observed a reprint of a book for US GIs in Britain during WWII. Very fun, hood is the roof, bonnet is the hood,

When I was a kid, the bonnet was the hood but the roof was the roof. Canadian English is Brit-American English stew.

abruzzi · Mar 7, 2023

MattKing said:
More cameras should definitely have a switchable indicator that offers "Empty" as an option!

Id love that on large format film holders. The dark slide can indicate exposed/unexposed, but a clear empty indicator would be nice as well.

mshchem · Mar 7, 2023

abruzzi said:
Id love that on large format film holders. The dark slide can indicate exposed/unexposed, but a clear empty indicator would be nice as well.

Shake it long ways you can here film rattle back and forth, never fails. It doesn't scratch the film either.

Sirius Glass · Mar 7, 2023

MattKing said:
More cameras should definitely have a switchable indicator that offers "Empty" as an option!

Even better would be a flag that pops up when the photograph will not be worth taking.

abruzzi · Mar 7, 2023

mshchem said:
Shake it long ways you can here film rattle back and forth, never fails. It doesn't scratch the film either.

but which side is making the noise?

Mamiya 16 Camera

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