Making Hardener for Fixer

[BySumbergsStache]

I'm shooting Arista.edu 4x5, which is Formapan. It tends to scratch easy, so I'd like to make some hardener to add to my fixer. Is it just a dilute solution of sulfuric acid? I have access to standard lab chemicals.

 

[Photo Engineer]

No, it is not Sulfuric Acid and the chemicals used vary with fixer. It is easier to make a separate hardener for your film.

A solution of 10% Chrome Alum before the developer and a wash after the hardener will work.

A prehardener of about 10 ml of 37% Formalin and 100 g/l Sodium Sulfate in 1 L of water at pH 9, followed by a wash and then development will also work.

PE

 

[Wayne]

A staining developer will also harden ("tan") the emulsion. But I don't know if it would be enough, although I'm sure someone has tried it with Fomapan and can probably tell you.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Wayne, my hardener hardens overall, but your method just hardens portions.

PE

 

[Ian Grant]

I used to use a chrome alum hardening stop bath with EFKE films in the 1970's, at that point they were very poorly hardened. However Foma films are better hardened I've used overv100 rolls of 120 and quite a few boxes of 5x4 Fomapan 100 & 200 and don't have an issue, you do need to be careful keep the process temperature constant throughout including washing

Wayne's suggestion of a tanning developer does help, while tanning is proportional to exposure/development there's a slight overall base hardening as well. I currently use Pyrocat HD for all my films inc Foma.

You can add Aluminium Sulphate to your fixer, about 28g/l but the pH off the fixer has to be adjusted and a lot depends on what fixer you are actually using. Fixers are buffered to keep them at a chosen pH, the only difference between Ilford Rapid Fixer and Ilford Hypam is the buffering in Hypam allows the addition of Ilford's separate hardener which takes the pH from approx 5.5 to 4.5.

Some of us remember older films when we started in photography, in my case FP3 & HP3, all films of that era had relatively soft emulsions by modern standards and hardening fixers were standard. In comparison Foma films are quite well hardened, in Turkey I process mine at 27ºC, that's the water temperature and I can keep to within +/- 1ºC over the whole process cycle easily. You do need to take care, they are slightly more prone to scratching the emulsion, I can live with that.

If you want to use a hardening fixer you'd be better mixing one from scratch or buying some.

Ian

 

[removed account4]

I'm shooting Arista.edu 4x5, which is Formapan. It tends to scratch easy, so I'd like to make some hardener to add to my fixer. Is it just a dilute solution of sulfuric acid? I have access to standard lab chemicals.

why don't you just buy kodak fixer in the package
that is fix+hardener, or if you use speed-fixer
[like sprint speed fixer] just buy a bottle of alum hardener?
wiith sprint's you just add something like 100cc right into the fixer
and you are good to go.
both kodak's and sprint's can be purchased online if your local shop
doesn't carry them.

 

[Neal]

Dear BySumbergsStache,

I have found it handy to simply use Kodafix for film, but I am not in a pinch for storage space.

Good luck,

Neal Wydra

 

[pdeeh]

if you are really having problems with damaged emulsion on a popular and widely used film like fomapan, I'd be inclined to look at how I'm handling it rather than assuming that the film needs something very few people bother with now.

I regularly tray develop and then contact print off fomapan 8x10 for alt processes, and never have had a problem that wasn't as a result of carelessness or clumsiness on my part.

the only fixer I use is a plain ordinary rapid version, no hardener

 

[MattKing]

The Kodak Rapid Fixer offers you the choice of either including or excluding the hardener. I leave the hardener out of the fixer, and use it instead with prints after toning.

 

[Gerald C Koch]

A chrome alum hardening bath will produce better hardening than a hardening fixer which uses ordinary alum. Chrome alum is used to tan leather.

 

[Steve Goldstein]

<snippage>

A solution of 10% Chrome Alum before the developer and a wash after the hardener will work.

<a bit more snippage>
PE

Ron, how extensive a wash are you talking about here? You used the word "wash" rather than "rinse", so I expect the duration is more than just a few seconds.

Thank you.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Ok, harden for at least 5 minutes and then wash for the same length of time in 20C running water.

PE

 

[Doremus Scudder]

Is it
harden - wash - develop
or
harden - develop -wash?

Harden, rinse, develop.

Should be the same today as seven years ago

 

[ic-racer]

I'm glad this thread came to the surface.

Since switching totally to HP5 a few years ago, I'm finding the process of removing HP5 from plastic reels by unwinding it like unwinding a metal real (not sliding it all back, reverse of how it went on the plastic reel) causes little bits of emulsion to show up in the next step. That would be the photoflo bath.

I'm getting little strips of emulsion from the very edge of the film. They are a little thicker than a hair and only an inch or two long and float around in the photoflo after dipping the length of film in the photoflo.

Presently I try to pluck them out of the photoflo between rolls, but I have missed them and they wound up plastered on a frame, destroying the image.

I usually process about 16 rolls at a time, just like I always have for the last 20 years. So changing the photoflo for each roll seems like much. And still curious as to why this was never a problem in the past.

I'm using Ilfort Hypam (non-hardening) in 5 liter containers, because that is what my local shop carries. Due to shipping cost and possible restrictions, I need to continue to buy the 5 liter jugs locally.

I think I'll try the hardner that Ron suggested.

 

[ic-racer]

Hypam Fixer insert (or why I never used hardener for last 20 years):

The addition of a fixer hardener can be used to turn working strength solutions of ILFORD HYPAM into a hardening fixer for Black & White films, however for most applications modern camera films are sufficiently hardened when manufactured for most processing circumstances so the general use of a fix hardening agent is no longer recommended. The use of a fix hardener is only recommended if:- - the film process temperature is above 30ºC (86ºF) - poor film drying performance is being experienced - shorter film drying times are needed - there is a risk of physical damage to the film, e.g. if a roller transport processor is used.

 

[Anon Ymous]

Can we let PE to answer?

That would be hard and rather scary.

 

[ic-racer]

Why dont you separate the reel? Myself changed to Jobo tank and the first film I had to rip it out of the reel as I did not know the method to separate them. I used Krokus before and the reels break only by looking at them, so I was overcarefull. After I watched a video on YT about how to separate the Jobo reel, now I separate and take the film out as it is intended.
I also dont understand why you first take the film from the reel and put it loose in the photoflo.
I am sure you have your reason, just wondering about what impose this situation.

Good point about the new need to separate the reels. Seeing as Ilford's own reels don't separate, the need to do that indicates a problem somewhere. Since films can safely be removed from any reel (especially those that don't separate) without the emulsion touching the spirals, it points to some other issue.

Now I'm suspecting something either on the back of the film or on the cut edge.

 

[Anon Ymous]

How that, what happened?

Sadly, he's gone:

Passing... Rowland "Ron" Mowrey aka PE, Photo Engineer, Feb. 15, 2020

It is sad day that I have to report the passing of my colleague and friend Ron Mowrey. He was a great friend of Photrio. His seemingly endless photographic knowledge will surely be missed.

www.photrio.com

 

[Doremus Scudder]

Can we let PE to answer?

Although PE is no longer with us, you can read his earlier post (#2).

Heck, I'll make it easy for you, here are the relevant quotes (emphasis in bold; explanation added in italics):

"A solution of 10% Chrome Alum before the developer and a wash after the hardener [and before the developer]
will work.

A prehardener of about 10 ml of 37% Formalin and 100 g/l Sodium Sulfate in 1 L of water at pH 9, followed by a wash and then development will also work."

There you have it from the original source.

Doremus

 

[mshchem]

Naked Photographer. This episode cured me from using hardener for anything Except, when drying fiber prints with heat, and/or toning.

 

[Romanko]

I'm finding the process of removing HP5 from plastic reels by unwinding it like unwinding a metal real (not sliding it all back, reverse of how it went on the plastic reel) causes little bits of emulsion to show up in the next step.

What is the format of your film? What tank and reels are you using? Why don't you get a new reel? They are inexpensive compared to the price of ruined film.

 

[ic-racer]

Sure, that film just floats in mid air between those spirals.

When the film is unwound from any spiral, the emulsion should not touch if the film is curved emulsion side inward. There are some instructional videos on YouTube showing how to do it.

 

[ic-racer]

What is the format of your film? What tank and reels are you using? Why don't you get a new reel? They are inexpensive compared to the price of ruined film.

I have about 20 reels, all Jobo.
Only started happening with HP5 120& 35mm