Making a Dye Transfer Matrix film

Photo Engineer · Sep 1, 2008

Bill;

I really don't know, as I have not tried it. Sorry. It probably will if it dissolves in gelatin without harming its gelation effects, and if it is harmless towards the emulsion.

PE

dyetransfer · Sep 2, 2008

Hi Bill - you could also use a black pigment. I suggest trying some artists' water color paint. You can get it in small tubes, one tube should make lots of film. You would have to experiment with the concentration to maximize your exposure, while avoiding excessive depth of exposure. Also, you may find that the addition of a pigment or a dye changes the curve a bit, which may work for or against you.

Regards - Jim

Photo Engineer · Sep 2, 2008

Well, I do know one thing about pigments. Those made with carbon black or "soot", are harmful to emulsions. I cannot remember details, but they either cause fog or restrain development. All I remember is that carbon "powder" must be specially purified for photographic work.

Carbon black is usually formed by incomplete burning of oils or tallow or paraffin. These materials often contain sulfur compounds that adsorb to the carbon granules and must be purified out of the material before use.

We ran into this in PR-10 pod and film pack making. The carbon black was doing nasty things to the film pack and goo.

PE

wildbillbugman · Sep 7, 2008

Hi Ron,
Are these dyes best disoved in something prior to adding them to the emulsion? Other procedures I have read call for dysolving the dyes in methanol, making a stock solution.
Thanks,
Bill

Photo Engineer · Sep 7, 2008

Make solutions of 100 mg / 100 ml of alcohol (methyl, ethyl or iso propyl in order of preference). That is 0.1%.

Store in a refrigerator.

Use at about 10 - 100 mg of dye / mole of silver depending on grain size. Amount goes up as grain size goes down. I would start at 50 mg/mole.

Add after the emulsion is melted, and hold 15 minutes at 100F, then add hardener and spreading agent.

Read the manual.

PE

wildbillbugman · Sep 8, 2008

Read the manual.

PE[/QUOTE]

What manual? Did I miss a handout at the workshop? Or are you reffering to this Forum?
Bill

Photo Engineer · Sep 8, 2008

There is a section in the workshop notes that covers this. They are about 50 pages long, so you may have to hunt a bit, but it is under the camera speed orthochromatic emulsions.

PE

Kirk Keyes · Sep 8, 2008

The Manual -

You mean Bruce Kahn's class notes?

wildbillbugman · Sep 8, 2008

Who the heck is Bruce Kahn? Kirk, Do you know what he is talking about?

dwross · Sep 8, 2008

wildbillbugman said:
Who the heck is Bruce Kahn? Kirk, Do you know what he is talking about?

Hi Bill,

I was feeling a little put upon for a second. " Manual? What manual!? Our workshop didn't get a manual." But I think Kirk is right that Ron means the Kahn class notes. Ron emailed those to us after our workshop. If you don't have them, I'll send you a scan of the pages on dyes, but they almost certainly won't do you any good. They are just screen shots (or a facsimile) of what looks like Powerpoint bullets for a lecture.

Denise

Kirk Keyes · Sep 8, 2008

Yes, Bruce Kahn of RIT - like Denise said, Ron emailed us the chapters of Bruce's emulsion making class notes in several pdfs. I compiled them all together into one big pdf and talked my local print shop into making me a hard copy on their color laser printer. It's nice having it all in one book. But Denise is right, it's mostly outline for his lectures. But still some good stuff in there.

Photo Engineer · Sep 8, 2008

I mean that I handed out nearly 50 pages of printed class notes to you all before the class began. Everything discussed in that class is in the notes and the remainder of the items touched on were sent to you via e-mail. They are from the course by Dr. Bruce Kahn professsor of photography at RIT. They are used with his permission.

His notes do not describe spectral sensitization in detail, but my notes do. I have two complete sensitization experiments in the notes, one using Erythrosine, and one using the green sensitizer that Bill has. I outlined the procedure from the class notes above.

PE

wildbillbugman · Sep 8, 2008

Yes,
Sorry, Ron and Kirk, I did get those. Ron`s last post jogged my memory. I will find the handout and emails. Damn, I sometimes can frustrate and discust myself !
ill

Photo Engineer · Sep 8, 2008

Bill;

I'm sorry to hear that you have been ill. Take care of yourself. I want to see the results of your labors bloom and enrich us all.

Ron

Making a Dye Transfer Matrix film

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